It happened in WI on June of 2010. Granted and Oc'er was robbed of his gun but it is still a "bad guy" taking an OC'ers firearm. It's still an oddity and in WI there's no other way to carry...it is what it is.
Would you be so quick to judge had they showed someone who was CC but had been made and pointed out to the officers? Would you think the show was right on if a CC'er acted the same way they forced the OC'er to act? I think not.
For all we know the open carrier in Philly saw this episode and prepared him for over the top law enforcement.
The video was far from real world. The only problems I see with OC are the "BAITERS" that want to be internet sensations and post LE encounters on YTube and the Starbucks Sissy Brigades that mob up to prove a point. This is what gives OC a bad name. Most encounters with LE are non eventful provided that the OC'er does not act like a revival tent evangelist preaching 2A personal rights to LE. JMHO
When I am out with my family at a mall, park, or whatever, I don't want to have to stop and constantly discuss and defend the OC laws in Alabama. Who wants to spend a Saturday dealing with LEO's responding to "man with a gun calls" and keeping them from dealing with real crimes?
That said as more people begin taking responsibility for themselves and their family's well being the more likely that there will be unfortunate events related to CC and OC.
great post! I don't really have anything else to say but I hate leaving one line posts......but this line is so long......
*EDIT* Actually the more I watch these videos the more they are frustrating me. They show the situation, talk what the person did wrong but don't offer any other possible ways to conduct yourself, or if they do it cuts out right before anything useful. kinda lame.
Given the tens of thousands of people who carry every day, you should be able to give us links to dozens of news reports of this happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by tacman605
I can think of one where an OCer was robbed of his gun at gunpoint,
one where a greeter at a big box store snuck up behind an OCer, tried to take his pistol, & ended up needing surgery,
and one where a feral teen behind someone in line at a store tried to pull it from the holster. Failed.
Originally Posted by Janq
If OC in his area does not require a permit, then he doesn't have to have or show one.Quote:
... LEO stated multiple times that he just wanted to see the license/permit to be sure he had a valid lic./permit.
Apparently the cop thought OC required a permit. Doesn't mean that's what the law says, though. Cops often don't know laws very well.
Originally Posted by 2edgesword
"There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional rights."
Sherer v. Cullen, 481 F 946
"The Claim and exercise of a Constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."
Miller v. U.S. , 230 F 2d 486. 489
"It has long been a tenet of federal jurisprudence that a defendant's invocation of a constitutional right cannot be used to imply guilt."
State v. Banks, 2010 WI App 107, ___ Wis. 2d ___, 790 N.W.2d 526, 09-1436.
Courts have ruled that police cannot stop a driver simply to check for a valid license.Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefjason
...unless the LEO sees or suspects criminal activity is afoot, the most he can do is observe or try a consensual interview.
You haven't heard of the Madison 5 have you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Janq
OC is legal in WI. No permit, no gov't interference.
5 OCers were having dinner at a burger joint in Madison, WI.
Woman sees 2 of them outside, calls police to ask if OC is legal. Tells police the guys are relaxed, just sitting there (smoking).
Police respond w/ 8 officers.
Demand ID. Arrest 2 people who remain silent. The other 3 produce ID, and all 5 eventually get DC tickets... even though the AG ruled more than a year before that OC does not equal DC.
Those tickets have been dropped.
The federal suits against the city are pending.
Then there's me, in Brookfield, WI (western suburb of Milwaukee).
Similar scenario, in that someone called police to ask if OC was legal, said I wasn't doing anything threatening, yet police responded en masse & ended up doing a felony stop (me at gunpoint) & arresting me.
Won that federal suit.
Then there's the guy in Racine, WI (between Milwaukee & the IL border) who was OC on his property, got arrested for not talking to police. (They were investigating something else, knew he wasn't the person they were looking for, but once they wrapped that up came back to bother him.)
Then there's the guy in West Allis, WI (Milwaukee suburb) who was planting a tree in his own yard. Neighbor called police to ask if OC was legal, police did a felony stop on him in his own yard! His case is pending in court.
Most OCers I know carry recorders of various sorts to protect themselves, usually after having a bad encounter with a LEO. Bad actions on the part of our public servants should be brought to public attention & corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy6
As for having meetings in places that welcome our business, what's wrong with that? Whether it's for coffee or a meal or range time, if they're willing to accept our money, why avoid the place? I prefer rewarding them.
Here's audio contrasting two 911 calls, one about an OC event at Starbuck's (they love us there!) and the second is the Madison 5 incident.
So why do LEOs do it? Maybe because it's often easier, & provides for a faster draw when it's needed?Quote:
Originally Posted by smolck
LEOs often travel in pairs, at least in larger dept's, and have backup. I'd think they would have less need to draw a pistol quickly.
The pistol I carry is the most widely-used by LEOs around the world. If it's good enough for them...
Why should I conceal, when their daily practice is to carry openly? If it's good enough for them...
The choice to OC or cc belongs with each person, depending on her/his needs.
There's no trouble or expense involved with OC, no gov't registration, no tax.Quote:
I have gone to the trouble and expense of buying proper conceal holsters and getting my permit to carry. Seems easier to me.
That's what I call easy.