The Best Defense TV show Open Carry confrontation scenario

This is a discussion on The Best Defense TV show Open Carry confrontation scenario within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by moby clarke Please, the scenerio they showed is so outragous and silly as to render any credibility this show had moot. The ...

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Thread: The Best Defense TV show Open Carry confrontation scenario

  1. #46
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by moby clarke View Post
    Please, the scenerio they showed is so outragous and silly as to render any credibility this show had moot. The bias against OC is obvious and their distain for anyone who would OC complete. Is it important to discuss OC? Sure, but only by those who can and will do so as adults with an open mind and no petty bias. The show and it's writers are obviously not able to have a rational discussion.
    And yet the scenario they displayed on the show almost happened in Philly, officer responding with gun drawn to an open carrier, the audio is pretty intense, the officers are clearly in the wrong in that case and the OC'er is lucky he didn't get shot...

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Reminded me once again why we no longer have satellite or cable. Star Wars movies have a closer relationship to the truth and reality than TV



    Can you please post one singe verifiable instance. We had a thread going for months here on DC in which no one was able to do so. So you will set a DC record if you can. If you can not find at least one verifiable provable link where a BG took an OC'd weapon from a law abiding civilian citizen, would you please consider not spreading anti self defense propaganda for them.
    It happened in WI on June of 2010. Granted and Oc'er was robbed of his gun but it is still a "bad guy" taking an OC'ers firearm. It's still an oddity and in WI there's no other way to carry...it is what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    And yet the scenario they displayed on the show almost happened in Philly, officer responding with gun drawn to an open carrier, the audio is pretty intense, the officers are clearly in the wrong in that case and the OC'er is lucky he didn't get shot...
    And as I wrote, discussing OC in an open and adult way is necessary. The clip on the show is neither.

    Would you be so quick to judge had they showed someone who was CC but had been made and pointed out to the officers? Would you think the show was right on if a CC'er acted the same way they forced the OC'er to act? I think not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moby clarke View Post
    And as I wrote, discussing OC in an open and adult way is necessary. The clip on the show is neither.

    Would you be so quick to judge had they showed someone who was CC but had been made and pointed out to the officers? Would you think the show was right on if a CC'er acted the same way they forced the OC'er to act? I think not.
    I'm sorry I must have missed something, just what did I judge? The situation that you are describing is exactly what happened to the guy in Nevada. I never said the show was "right on" however it definitely makes one think about possible negative attention, regardless if the gun is intentionally displayed or not. Thinking about your actions beforehand is something that has become underrated these days or so it seems, if it makes one think about how to respond in the event of negative interactions with law enforcement, I'm all for it. As for the show, it's TV. Show me one thing on TV that portrays anything in an accurate manner.

    For all we know the open carrier in Philly saw this episode and prepared him for over the top law enforcement.

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    The video was far from real world. The only problems I see with OC are the "BAITERS" that want to be internet sensations and post LE encounters on YTube and the Starbucks Sissy Brigades that mob up to prove a point. This is what gives OC a bad name. Most encounters with LE are non eventful provided that the OC'er does not act like a revival tent evangelist preaching 2A personal rights to LE. JMHO

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy62 View Post
    The video was far from real world. The only problems I see with OC are the "BAITERS" that want to be internet sensations and post LE encounters on YTube and the Starbucks Sissy Brigades that mob up to prove a point. This is what gives OC a bad name. Most encounters with LE are non eventful provided that the OC'er does not act like a revival tent evangelist preaching 2A personal rights to LE. JMHO
    I have to say I was doing some research on Alabama Open Carry (not because I want to, I CC only) and was curious. I appreciate and understand our 2nd amendment rights, but the question is "why"? If I can legally CC a firearm, why wouldn't I? Any LEO you speak with will tell you that OC is a tactical and safety disadvantage. In fact, the Alabama Open Carry website has a letter posted by a local police chief that even says that. And yep, they meet every Saturday at Starbucks. Why? This isn't the wild west, times change ya know. I carry a weapon, but I have gone to the trouble and expense of buying proper conceal holsters and getting my permit to carry. Seems easier to me. Nobody ever knows I am carrying, it's just easier that way.

    When I am out with my family at a mall, park, or whatever, I don't want to have to stop and constantly discuss and defend the OC laws in Alabama. Who wants to spend a Saturday dealing with LEO's responding to "man with a gun calls" and keeping them from dealing with real crimes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    It happened in WI on June of 2010. Granted and Oc'er was robbed of his gun but it is still a "bad guy" taking an OC'ers firearm. It's still an oddity and in WI there's no other way to carry...it is what it is.
    Damn JD, you broke the record. Looks like I will have to stop saying it has never happened.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Damn JD, you broke the record. Looks like I will have to stop saying it has never happened.
    It's like I said a couple of years ago, just because it hasn't happened yet...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    It's like I said a couple of years ago, just because it hasn't happened yet...
    I recall and did not disagree with you than. We are still more likely to be hit with lightening or even satellite debris than being targeted or shot first (that has yet to happen to my knowledge) because we OC.

    That said as more people begin taking responsibility for themselves and their family's well being the more likely that there will be unfortunate events related to CC and OC.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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    great post! I don't really have anything else to say but I hate leaving one line posts......but this line is so long......


    *EDIT* Actually the more I watch these videos the more they are frustrating me. They show the situation, talk what the person did wrong but don't offer any other possible ways to conduct yourself, or if they do it cuts out right before anything useful. kinda lame.
    Last edited by Savage206; April 22nd, 2011 at 12:13 AM. Reason: content
    EDC: FN FNP-9 w/ three 16 rnd magazines. Mini Maglite.

    " The unarmed man is not just defenseless, he is also contemptible." ~ Machiavelli.

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    Member Array MKEgal's Avatar
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    this got kinda long

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605
    You had better be prepared to defend your weapon from someone who just plain wants the shiny thing on your belt...
    Given the tens of thousands of people who carry every day, you should be able to give us links to dozens of news reports of this happening.
    I can think of one where an OCer was robbed of his gun at gunpoint,
    one where a greeter at a big box store snuck up behind an OCer, tried to take his pistol, & ended up needing surgery,
    and one where a feral teen behind someone in line at a store tried to pull it from the holster. Failed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq
    ...remain calm and not be agitated going on about Constitutional rights gibberish.


    ... LEO stated multiple times that he just wanted to see the license/permit to be sure he had a valid lic./permit.
    If OC in his area does not require a permit, then he doesn't have to have or show one.
    Apparently the cop thought OC required a permit. Doesn't mean that's what the law says, though. Cops often don't know laws very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2edgesword
    ... the fact that he was doing something lawful cannot by itself be construed a suspicious acting requiring an individual to identify themself.
    +1000

    "There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional rights."
    Sherer v. Cullen, 481 F 946

    "The Claim and exercise of a Constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."
    Miller v. U.S. , 230 F 2d 486. 489

    "It has long been a tenet of federal jurisprudence that a defendant's invocation of a constitutional right cannot be used to imply guilt."
    State v. Banks, 2010 WI App 107, ___ Wis. 2d ___, 790 N.W.2d 526, 09-1436.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason
    ...Do we now stop someone driving a car to ask for his license if he is doing nothing else wrong?
    Courts have ruled that police cannot stop a driver simply to check for a valid license.

    ...unless the LEO sees or suspects criminal activity is afoot, the most he can do is observe or try a consensual interview.
    +1000

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq
    _IF_ "...in a state where OC is legal without a license or permit..." clearly IF this were such a state per the scenario then there would have been no response by the officers...
    You haven't heard of the Madison 5 have you?
    OC is legal in WI. No permit, no gov't interference.
    5 OCers were having dinner at a burger joint in Madison, WI.
    Woman sees 2 of them outside, calls police to ask if OC is legal. Tells police the guys are relaxed, just sitting there (smoking).
    Police respond w/ 8 officers.
    Demand ID. Arrest 2 people who remain silent. The other 3 produce ID, and all 5 eventually get DC tickets... even though the AG ruled more than a year before that OC does not equal DC.
    Those tickets have been dropped.
    The federal suits against the city are pending.

    Then there's me, in Brookfield, WI (western suburb of Milwaukee).
    Similar scenario, in that someone called police to ask if OC was legal, said I wasn't doing anything threatening, yet police responded en masse & ended up doing a felony stop (me at gunpoint) & arresting me.
    Won that federal suit.

    Then there's the guy in Racine, WI (between Milwaukee & the IL border) who was OC on his property, got arrested for not talking to police. (They were investigating something else, knew he wasn't the person they were looking for, but once they wrapped that up came back to bother him.)

    Then there's the guy in West Allis, WI (Milwaukee suburb) who was planting a tree in his own yard. Neighbor called police to ask if OC was legal, police did a felony stop on him in his own yard! His case is pending in court.
    paullie likes this.
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  13. #57
    Member Array MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy6
    The only problems I see with OC are the "BAITERS" that want to be internet sensations and post LE encounters on YTube and the Starbucks Sissy Brigades that mob up to prove a point.
    Most OCers I know carry recorders of various sorts to protect themselves, usually after having a bad encounter with a LEO. Bad actions on the part of our public servants should be brought to public attention & corrected.

    As for having meetings in places that welcome our business, what's wrong with that? Whether it's for coffee or a meal or range time, if they're willing to accept our money, why avoid the place? I prefer rewarding them.

    Here's audio contrasting two 911 calls, one about an OC event at Starbuck's (they love us there!) and the second is the Madison 5 incident.

    Quote Originally Posted by smolck
    If I can legally CC a firearm, why wouldn't I? Any LEO you speak with will tell you that OC is a tactical and safety disadvantage.
    So why do LEOs do it? Maybe because it's often easier, & provides for a faster draw when it's needed?
    LEOs often travel in pairs, at least in larger dept's, and have backup. I'd think they would have less need to draw a pistol quickly.
    The pistol I carry is the most widely-used by LEOs around the world. If it's good enough for them...
    Why should I conceal, when their daily practice is to carry openly? If it's good enough for them...
    The choice to OC or cc belongs with each person, depending on her/his needs.

    I have gone to the trouble and expense of buying proper conceal holsters and getting my permit to carry. Seems easier to me.
    There's no trouble or expense involved with OC, no gov't registration, no tax.
    That's what I call easy.
    paullie and William Hill like this.
    "The female of the species is more deadly than the male." R. Kipling

    Defense fund donations gratefully accepted here (PayPal link).

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