The Best Defense TV show Open Carry confrontation scenario

This is a discussion on The Best Defense TV show Open Carry confrontation scenario within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you did not see this weeks show, here's a clip from their website... http://www.downrange.tv/blog/best-de...en-carry/8460/ If a legally armed citizen, (open or concealed) wants to ...

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Thread: The Best Defense TV show Open Carry confrontation scenario

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array orangevol's Avatar
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    The Best Defense TV show Open Carry confrontation scenario

    If you did not see this weeks show, here's a clip from their website...

    http://www.downrange.tv/blog/best-de...en-carry/8460/

    If a legally armed citizen, (open or concealed) wants to argue with the police, draw his weapon from the holster, and explain his carry rights...just be prepared to get shot! Can anyone, in their right mind, be so dumb?

    I have heard Michael Bain in previous episodes discourage "open carry" even stating his opinion that open carry allows the bad guy to "target" you and possibly rob you of your carry weapon. He has also given other discouraging reasons for keeping your weapon concealed. I was rather surprised when I saw this episode on open carry.
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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    That episode was broadcast earlier, month or so. I thought it was over the top on stupidity, but they probably have a broad base audience with various levels of intelligence relative to the carrying of weapons.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I am not a read big fan of The Best Defense. It doesn't do a real good job of putting out truthful info a lot of the time, as you found out on the open carry episode Orange. I don't watch it very often. I much prefer Personal Defense TV.
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    Well guys I could not watch the whole show just the clip however I will say that the comments made by the host are pretty much true. Not knocking OC at all just different things you have to consider.

    Carrying openly opens up a whole new can of worms as far as tactical awareness and your abilities. You had better be prepared to defend your weapon from someone who just plain wants the shiny thing on your belt and if you cannot or choose not to be prepared for that fact you may be better off not carrying at all.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    I have to agree, some of the scenarios are a bit far fetched and unrealistic.They might do better to focus on actual events from real people.

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    The advice to cooperate with police should not be needed. I thought the scenario was ridiculously far fetched. Only a drunk, drugged up, or mentally ill person would behave like that! And why bring up open carry as an issue? If you cc, and get made your in the same position. A better clip would have been how to deal with LEOs who are rude, high strung, confrontational, or just plane A__ H___s. This should demonstrate how to make yourself non-threatening under such circumstances. There are not allot of LEOs out there like that, but how to deal with some one else who is a problem, would be more valuable than casting you as the nut. Best advice is if you are crazy, high strung or have self control issues don't carry a gun. Has nothing to do with oc or cc!
    PT145, CZ52, PM for carry. Lots of others to look at

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    FYI; Show host Rob Pincus is a member of this site.

    I've been watching the show since the pilot and found that on the overall it's been pretty good and factual.
    I missed this OC item that you guys are remarking to as I'm a few episodes behind with rescue by TiVO.

    I'll try to watch it today/tonight...

    Edit:
    I just finished watching this episode...And it looks to be very much on point to my eye, and as based on _recent_ real world incidents that have made the news featured here at this site both in the open carry area (guy with carbine at mall) and at the GBU area such as the very well reported and here debated guy at Wal-Mart in NV who got shot due to non-compliance following a 911 call due to he carrying two guns and going on about he's got right to carry and is a "Green beret" as he destroyed store property and disturbed the peace.

    The subject of OC as an issue needs to be discussed...And is very much relevant.
    Take note of the entirety of the scenario as it was presented, not just the end result with LEO contact.
    Crazy, high strung and persons with self control issues have been covered by them in prior episodes as related to concealed carry, self defense and pretty much every other episode they have presented...It is their norm to include such examples among the whole and has been for like 3 seasons now. Not specific just to this singular subject.

    From what I've seen of this show their scenarios well reflect real world events...Which weekly if not daily we discuss here at DC.com.

    - Janq
    Last edited by Janq; February 13th, 2011 at 12:29 PM.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Regardless of circumstance, the time and place to address disputes with an officer are in the court room or the agency head's office - at a later time and in a respectful manner.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed CTR, which is _exactly_ what the folks of Best Defense stated and advised to viewers on their show following play out off all three of their don't be a moron/bonehead scenarios.

    Arguing and debating with cops as on duty contacting you toward an item of disturbance and law enforcement is widely and very much generally a non-starter.

    We've got 20 yrs. of 'COPS' episodes to show and prove this, never mind all the news item threads that have been posted here at DC.com and discussed/debated...But yet still after all that and more folk just can't seem to get it in their head to act like they know, hence this episode of the show for folk seemingly born yesterday.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Member Array chiboxer's Avatar
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    I agree. When the police have their guns drawn on you that is not a good time to debate your 2A rights
    Si vis pacem, parabellum

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    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    ...Carrying openly opens up a whole new can of worms as far as tactical awareness and your abilities. You had better be prepared to defend your weapon from someone who just plain wants the shiny thing on your belt and if you cannot or choose not to be prepared for that fact you may be better off not carrying at all.
    Can you cite any statistics where this has ever happened?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Can you cite any statistics where this has ever happened?

    Thanks
    I'm sure it's happened somewhere, sometime. But a million times it hasn't. Of all the people who OC, how many have had someone try to take the gun? The most probable time is when an LEO is wrestling some BG and the BG grabs for the gun. A case of some BG randomly grabbing a civilian's OC is a rarity.
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    The part I thought was off, was stating that if for the sole reason is open carry and police ask that you must show ID. Depending on the state that is not the case and can be considered harassment. In MI if the only reason is a call with mwag then you don't have to give any info or ID. If it is legal and you are following the law, then it is no different than wearing a yellow shirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polishnightmare View Post
    The part I thought was off, was stating that if for the sole reason is open carry and police ask that you must show ID. Depending on the state that is not the case and can be considered harassment. In MI if the only reason is a call with mwag then you don't have to give any info or ID. If it is legal and you are following the law, then it is no different than wearing a yellow shirt.
    True here in La too. No permit needed to OC and if the cops walk up asking for ID they are simply harrassing since OC doesn't meet the requirements for a Terry stop.
    Steve
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    www.laopencarry.org

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polishnightmare View Post
    The part I thought was off, was stating that if for the sole reason is open carry and police ask that you must show ID. Depending on the state that is not the case and can be considered harassment. In MI if the only reason is a call with mwag then you don't have to give any info or ID. If it is legal and you are following the law, then it is no different than wearing a yellow shirt.
    They did not though say "must".

    What they advised in this show, AND in the concealed carry show from like two weeks ago on same type LEO contact, to remain calm and not be agitated going on about Constitutional rights gibberish.
    They _suggested_ that you comply with any questions the officers might have as related to identifying yourself and if relevant (!) provision of any license/permit that might be applicable in that location (state/city or town).

    They have been suggesting same continually as a post LEO contact positional response across all of their shows including the one a month ago about how to react and settle ones self following the use of self defense tools.
    Oddly nobody got bent about that show nor the just weeks ago concealed carry episode where they suggested the exact same thing as related to LEO contact, and again have been for some time now.

    I think what's happening here is a case of 'Jesse Jackson'.
    Folks see an episode on open carry and by that it's OMG!!!...They are being critical of open carry!...They are saying stuff that's not right! (Even as folks perceptions and recollections may be imagined/emotional rather than actual)...They are advising wrong stuff (When they are clearly advising to the majority, rather than minority and/or your own specific state and town laws).

    Clearly if your own state does not require some component of their advice be it toward open carry, concealed carry or even owning a firearm outright...Then well you can ignore/disregard that piece of the pie as being not applicable to you or your own specific condition.
    But to imply that their wholly wrong or even to say they are anti OC makes no sense at all as based on the actuality of the information covered in the episode.

    Sadly there are a good number of people, per news reports featured here at DC.com alone!, who when contacted by police do have such attitude and react exactly as how the 'Do Not Do This' type response as featured on the show.
    They well demonstrated poor attitude and active response by the citizen as contacted and from there how things can, and do, devolve in to persons either being detained and arrested if not even being hurt. And they aren't all drugged or drunk as another member suggested earlier....As the silly minded suffer too which is what here they were demonstrating as a lesson.

    Folks who live in those few states that; 1) Do support open carry AND 2) Do not require presentation of a lic. toward same AND 3) It is socially normative to see a person on Main Street standing around with a gun at ones hip...Then very well know their own local situation and by that know okay at 'home' (home town, own property/residence, place of business, etc.) I can act differently than what they advise.

    - Janq

    P.S.
    As held up by ruling in the Supreme Court a person does have to identify them self to law enforcement, as for the singular sake of identification. Such as when walking on a street not operating a motorized vehicle on public roads or some other such not a civil right and state permitted allowed act. So yeah dude was in fact acting unlawfully when he refused to provide his lic./permit by the fact that he was actively being asked to identify himself by law enforcement.

    In this scenario the shows example clearly were leaning toward the majority in so much that possession and carry of a firearm is a state permitted act to whihc a license/permit is required to support the act of possession.
    In the scenario the lead LEO stated multiple times that he just wanted to see the permits license/permit to be sure he had a valid lic./permit. But the person contacted kept going on about I'm not doing anything wrong gibberish. The LEO had not said he was doing anything wrong, and that is key here at this thread!
    It was never stated nor implied by the officer that the person contacted had done anything wrong. If anything he was trying to do the citizen a solid by giving him the benefit of a doubt that he was in fact acting lawful and to prove that he requested to see and validate his state issue lic./permit.
    Further it is clear that carry as such is not normative for that scenarios imaginary locale in the manner that he was doing so as based on the reactions plural of both persons who noted him, and called the cops.

    Folk might want to watch the episode a second time when it comes back up as a repeat.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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