Open Carry Arrest

This is a discussion on Open Carry Arrest within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "[none of us are psychic]" I AM, I see a large amount of $$ coming his way ; ) H/D...

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Thread: Open Carry Arrest

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    "[none of us are psychic]"

    I AM, I see a large amount of $$ coming his way ; )
    H/D
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    He may have just completed his CC class but unless he is already licensed he may well have been in violation of 18 U.S.C. 922. If he was licensed he has a pay day coming. If license not issued yet he may well lose his 2A right and spend some time in a federal prison.
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  4. #18
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    According to his sister-in-law, Tiffany Ball, he did not have a permit, but was in the process of getting one, so it would appear he may have been in violation.

    With recent and past events, LE will probably err on the side of caution, with all the nerveous people around. The city is who will foot the bill if they are wrong.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    Well, he's 21 and appears to be from the middle east. He has a .45 strapped to his hip. Would you or your wife be alarmed if you saw him near a school?

    Gun scare causes Chesterfield school to go on lock down - Live5News.com | Charleston, SC | News, Weather, Sports


    Yep, I know it's profiling and shows prejudice, but do you worry about being politically correct and do nothing or question why if this is his workout "routine", he decided to open carry as part of it on this particular day.
    --Excerpt--
    Nicole Bell: "Why did he have a weapon on him?"
    Tiffany Ball: "Because he's nervous -- for protection."

    --End of excerpt--

    I wonder what "Because he's nervous" implies in this case.



    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    According to his sister-in-law, Tiffany Ball, he did not have a permit, but was in the process of getting one, so it would appear he may have been in violation.

    With recent and past events, LE will probably err on the side of caution, with all the nerveous people around . The city is who will foot the bill if they are wrong.
    I was tinkling exactly the same thing. And do not forget that we do not know what "Because he's nervous" really implies.
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  6. #20
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    Based on one news report, there's a lot that we don't know. Hopefully, some of the local news outlets will have more to report next week. I still question why on this particular day he decided to open carry. Maybe that will come out also and explain why he's nervous.

  7. #21
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    So is acting lawfully considered "stirring things up", these days?

    It's getting pretty bad when people get arrested for doing things that are "almost illegal".

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    I have no doubt there would not be a single person presently advocating the police be bashed for this, who would not be the first in line at the courthouse to sue if something had happened at the school and their kid had been hurt.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    So is acting lawfully considered "stirring things up", these days?

    It's getting pretty bad when people get arrested for doing things that are "almost illegal".
    At this point, I've not seen evidence that he was acting legally. Some definitions of campus only include the school buildings and grounds it sits on, excluding parking lots and athletic fields. It's possible, depending on the definition, that he was off campus and still on school property. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    I guess my issue is that basically I think he was trying to get something stirred up. I don't question why somebody carries because I'm paranoid. I question why somebody open carries just to make a fashion statement or whatever.
    He wasn't open carrying to "make a fashion statement". He has taken his CC course and has applied for his permit. It hasn't been granted yet, so OC is the only option that is available to him now.

    I OC on my way to and from work daily, no one says anything to me about it. Perhaps being a white male, pushing 60 has something to do with it.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    He wasn't open carrying to "make a fashion statement". He has taken his CC course and has applied for his permit. It hasn't been granted yet, so OC is the only option that is available to him now.

    I OC on my way to and from work daily, no one says anything to me about it. Perhaps being a white male, pushing 60 has something to do with it.
    Do you open carry on school property?

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    Do you open carry on school property?
    What about "almost" on school property? From the linked article.

    "A man was seen walking near the school with a semi-automatic gun strapped, to his hip"

    "Police say Alkabily was not on the school campus but close enough to the school that the department could charge him with possessing a firearm while on school property."

    So, now I'm wondering how this is going to work? Looks like we are back to the not on school grounds, but within 1000' of a school. I'm very curious how this will settle out in court. Hopefully he gets a lawyer and fights this. The law has been struck down once. It needs to get struck again, but it seems it will take someone like this to do it.

    To answer someones question on what I would think. There was a time when I would have probable freaked out a bit. But I have read almost no reports of criminals who are OC'ing in a holster. You probably won't see the criminals gun till it's too late. YMMV
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  13. #27
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    What about "almost" on school property? From the linked article.

    "A man was seen walking near the school with a semi-automatic gun strapped, to his hip"

    "Police say Alkabily was not on the school campus but close enough to the school that the department could charge him with possessing a firearm while on school property."

    So, now I'm wondering how this is going to work? Looks like we are back to the not on school grounds, but within 1000' of a school. I'm very curious how this will settle out in court. Hopefully he gets a lawyer and fights this. The law has been struck down once. It needs to get struck again, but it seems it will take someone like this to do it.

    To answer someones question on what I would think. There was a time when I would have probable freaked out a bit. But I have read almost no reports of criminals who are OC'ing in a holster. You probably won't see the criminals gun till it's too late. YMMV
    I double checked the article that I linked (the only news account I've been able to find so far) and I don't see an "almost" in it. It says that he was charged with carrying on school property. This is the line that's causing the problem... "Police say Alkabily was not on the school campus but close enough to the school that the department could charge him with possessing a firearm while on school property". If you look at that school on the map, it pretty much sits off by itself on a dead end road. I don't know how much of that area is school property. Mr Alkabily may not have known either.

    You're right that criminals don't usually open carry, but most of the people who shoot up schools aren't criminals until they do the shooting. Whether he was legally within his rights or not, I don't think Mr Alkabily exercised very good judgement. I also question why, if this was his routine, he chose to open carry on this particular day and why, considering the current gun climate in the wake of the Arizona shooting, he chose to open carry in the vicinity of a school.

    Whether the shooting takes place at Columbine, Virginia Tech, Ft Hood, or a Safeway shopping center in Arizona, the initial criticism is that "the system" ignored all the warning signs. Then the calls for more gun legislation start. If something had happened at this school, do you think a man running past the school with a pistol would have been considered a warning sign?

    Personally, I would expect someone who had just applied for a concealed carry permit to exercise better judgement but maybe my expectations are too high.

  14. #28
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    The key parts are bolded, and the really important key words are in red.

    Local code;
    Sec. 14-11. Same--Hunting or carrying a loaded firearm near public schools or parks.
    (a) No person shall shoot, hunt or attempt to hunt with a firearm within 100 yards of any property line of any county public school or county park.
    (b) No person shall transport, possess or carry a loaded firearm within 100 yards of any property line of any county public school or county park, except as otherwise permitted by state law.(c) This section shall not apply to lands within a national or state park, state forest or wildlife management area.
    (d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to the discharge of a firearm for the killing of deer pursuant to Code of Virginia, 29.1-529. This exemption shall apply on land of at least five acres that is zoned for agricultural use.
    (e) Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a class 4 misdemeanor.
    State code;

    18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

    A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony; however, if the person possesses any firearm within a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school building and intends to use, or attempts to use, such firearm, or displays such weapon in a threatening manner, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.

    The exemptions set out in 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.

    As used in this section:

    "Stun weapon" means any device that emits a momentary or pulsed output, which is electrical, audible, optical or electromagnetic in nature and which is designed to temporarily incapacitate a person.


    (Code 1978, 15.1-22.4; Ord. of 9-21-05(1), 1)
    State law references: Authority to regulate, Code of Virginia, 15.2-1209; authority to prohibit activity, Code of Virginia, 29.1-527.
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  15. #29
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    I would have to agree with posters that have stated that he may not have known exactly where the property line was. Big No-No, I would bet that the arrest stands. The statements of his family that "he's nervous" don't cut it either, He has violated one of the unwritten rules of carrying a firearm. Don't go anyplace with your weapon that you would not go without it. OMO YMMV.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    The key parts are bolded, and the really important key words are in red.

    Local code;
    State code;
    Case closed. I google before I bash. No payday for you.
    Maybe. I'm not quite so sure those two sections are as applicable as you think; especially, the local code. The state code is very specific about this, "while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school." The key factor in the state code is being actually on school property, not nearby.

    The local code is more hard to interpret from this vantage. It appears to be hunting code not meant for broader use. We don't really know what this part means: "except as otherwise permitted by state law." Am I correct that VA allows unlicensed OC? What state preemption exists that might override that local code.

    To me the telling thing about this fellow is that he lacked the patience to wait for his cc to arrive, but that doesn't mean his actions were necessarily illegal or his intentions malicious.

    If unlicensed OC is lawful,

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