Open Carry Arrest
This is a discussion on Open Carry Arrest within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Perhaps, but section B of the local code makes no mention of hunting. It simply says posses, transport and carry.
The portion of state code ...
March 20th, 2011 11:44 AM
Perhaps, but section B of the local code makes no mention of hunting. It simply says posses, transport and carry.
The portion of state code I put in red is an exception to the firearms on school property that specifically says in a motor vehicle while using a vehicular egress. No mention is made of being on foot like in this case. That tells me our guy here is in violation of at least the local code as it is written.
March 20th, 2011 11:49 AM
Open carry is and has always been legal in Virginia because it is not prohibited by law. Also, no license or permit is required to either own or open carry a gun in Virginia, only to carry a concealed handgun. As for "state preemption, from my understanding, there is a statute on the books that says that no locality may enact an ordinance which is stronger or goes against the state laws. This has been tested and upheld quite a few times in Virginia, often at the expense of a settlement. Usually, now localities in Virginia are quite cooperative in removing such ordinances without having to be forced to do so.
March 20th, 2011 12:04 PM
It definitely is profiling and prejudice. We are not involved in military actions with the entire middle east, lots of those countries are our allies.
Originally Posted by RockBottom
Maybe because he is of middle eastern descent and has been threatened? That feeling of nervousness and lack of safety is usually what prompts people to start carrying.
Originally Posted by GM
Depending on the situation, state and federal law, and actual physical position where he was spotted and detained will decide the outcome. This may have been an innocent, unintended, accidental violation of some distance rule measured from an undisclosed location. "Close enough" is a bit weak, and part of a fishing trip. I would think that proof of intent would need to come into play.
And thanks to this arrest, he can just about kiss that CC permit approval goodbye.
Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
See also Sheep
March 20th, 2011 01:37 PM
We are both playing amateur lawyer and regarding a state where we don't reside on top of that.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
I was looking at this part of the local code: "Sec. 14-11. Same--Hunting or carrying a loaded firearm near public schools or parks.
(a) No person shall shoot, hunt or attempt to hunt with a firearm within 100 yards of any property line of any county public school or county park."
Was the arrested man shooting or hunting? If not, section "a" of the local code doesn't appear applicable.
I don't know if the possession part in section "b" is a separate item totally, or if it really is referring back to this hunting code. It is especially unclear because the code specifies that hunting within that 100 yard distance is lawful if a couple of conditions are met in the next section.
I'm sure the DA and defense attorney and judge will have a dandy time sorting it all out, except that there will more likely be some sort of plea and the exact meaning of the local code won't get determined. Of course there may already be existing case law on the matter and/or guidelines at the DA's office.
I guess the VA folks will have to jump in to tell us more about this.
March 20th, 2011 02:44 PM
I'm not a lawyer...I've read the same things everyone here has quoted...
IMHO, the police over-reacted...the young man was legally OCing...and there will be a legal remedy in his favor...
And once that takes place, he'll get is CHP...
But, again, its just my opinion...I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night...
"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
March 20th, 2011 10:59 PM
Sure they can. Doesn't mean it will hold up, but it will cause the guy grief, and won't cause the LEO any money.
Originally Posted by Eagleks
Sure, being alarmed is good. I don't know if I'd call the cops.
Originally Posted by RockBottom
March 21st, 2011 02:14 AM
From the Code of Virginia:
So I believe the local code is not enforceable. If that is what the arrest is based on the accused might be in for a pay day.
§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
However..... From 18 U.S.C. 922
So based on what I have read so far I am betting they are going to prosecute under federal law. Since he is not yet licensed he is not exempt from the federal law. If he had received his license and had it in his posession he probably would have been F.I. 'ed and sent on his way.
2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
under law to receive the license;
This version (1995) has been upheld as constitutional by the First Circuit (twice 2007 and 2008) the Third Circuit (2002 and 2007) the Sixth Circuit (2005) the Eighth Circuit (1999) the Ninth Circuit (2005) the Tenth Circuit (2007) and the Eleventh Circuit (2000).
Depending on the geographical specifics (was he on public or private property at the time?) the future may be very bleak for the accused.
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
March 22nd, 2011 01:23 AM
I hear you, man. I was thinking the same thing.
Originally Posted by Chad Rogers
March 22nd, 2011 06:36 AM
He's currently charged under 18.2-308.1, a Class 6 felony. For Class 6 felonies, the jury or court may choose imprisonment for one to five years or jail for up to 12 months and a fine of up to $2,500, either or both.
Originally Posted by mcp1810
His next scheduled court appearance is the 14th of April.
March 22nd, 2011 11:00 AM
So I guess they are now saying that he was in fact on the school's property. If that is the case, sucks to be him right now.
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
March 22nd, 2011 01:48 PM
He should of known better. Dont temp the gods on this one. Ignorance of the law is not a defense, people take there schools serious.....
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
March 22nd, 2011 02:18 PM
What the heck does that mean? Now the police there can enforce laws based on how close you are to breaking it? Can I be charged with speeding because I was close to the speed limit? That is ludicrous!
Originally Posted by redrick
March 22nd, 2011 06:38 PM
Once again, it boils down to the definition of "campus". In some areas all the school property is considered part of the campus. In other areas, parking lots and athletic fields are not considered to be part of the campus but are still school property. In one community in my area, the high school football field is about twelve blocks from the main campus. While it is not considered to be part of the campus, it is still school property and it would be illegal to carry there.
Originally Posted by TN_Mike
I don't know if something similar is happening in this particular incidence, but it does supply one possible explanation for the apparent inconsistency of statements in the story.
March 22nd, 2011 07:55 PM
March 22nd, 2011 08:35 PM
Here's a thought and it's pure speculation on my part. The address of the school is 1600 Learning Place Loop and it's a deadend road. What if they consider the road that the school is on to be a private road and therefore part of school property? If that were the case, you could be in violation of the law by simply being in the road. You wouldn't be on campus but "close enough".
Originally Posted by DaveJay
Hopefully, there will be some more news coverage. It could be an interesting case.
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