Open Carry Arrest - Page 4

Open Carry Arrest

This is a discussion on Open Carry Arrest within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by RockBottom Here's a thought and it's pure speculation on my part. The address of the school is 1600 Learning Place Loop and ...

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Thread: Open Carry Arrest

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    Here's a thought and it's pure speculation on my part. The address of the school is 1600 Learning Place Loop and it's a deadend road. What if they consider the road that the school is on to be a private road and therefore part of school property? If that were the case, you could be in violation of the law by simply being in the road. You wouldn't be on campus but "close enough".

    Hopefully, there will be some more news coverage. It could be an interesting case.
    Interesting speculation...

    I live less than 200 yards from a middle school, which is on a major street...I often walk in the area, including on the sidewalk in front of the school...

    I believe the sidewalk is clearly not on school property...but is it "close enough"...

    One other point...I never OC...
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  2. #47
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJay View Post
    Interesting speculation...

    I live less than 200 yards from a middle school, which is on a major street...I often walk in the area, including on the sidewalk in front of the school...

    I believe the sidewalk is clearly not on school property...but is it "close enough"...

    One other point...I never OC...

    I don't have a problem with open carrying, per se. If somebody wants to open carry, and they are doing it legally, that's their business. I do think that in today's climate open carrying in the vicinity of an occupied school , whether technically legal or not, displays poor judgement, but that's just my opinion. It'll still be interesting to see how this case finally turns out. The case number is GC11002216-00 in Chesterfield County, VA district court if anyone wants to follow it.

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    I don't have a problem with open carrying, per se. If somebody wants to open carry, and they are doing it legally, that's their business. I do think that in today's climate open carrying in the vicinity of an occupied school , whether technically legal or not, displays poor judgement, but that's just my opinion. It'll still be interesting to see how this case finally turns out. The case number is GC11002216-00 in Chesterfield County, VA district court if anyone wants to follow it.
    +1 I couldnt agree more.
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  4. #49
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJay View Post
    Interesting speculation...

    I live less than 200 yards from a middle school, which is on a major street...I often walk in the area, including on the sidewalk in front of the school...

    I believe the sidewalk is clearly not on school property...but is it "close enough"...

    One other point...I never OC...
    Method of carrying is mute. State law is mute. If you are a responsible, law abiding citizen, being within the distance rule from some undisclosed/un-posted location, you are in violation of the Federal law. At least Federal property is marked and posted.

    This thread has made me stop and think of some of the jobs that I have been on, and I may very well may have been in violation, unknowingly, because that is where the piece of equipment broke down or was parked.

    IIRC there was a thread about someone who lived in some city that was infested with schools, and having mapped out the distance rule, was licensed but unable to carry because of all the overlapping boundary lines.
    Sticks

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  5. #50
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Method of carrying is mute. State law is mute. If you are a responsible, law abiding citizen, being within the distance rule from some undisclosed/un-posted location, you are in violation of the Federal law. At least Federal property is marked and posted.

    This thread has made me stop and think of some of the jobs that I have been on, and I may very well may have been in violation, unknowingly, because that is where the piece of equipment broke down or was parked.

    IIRC there was a thread about someone who lived in some city that was infested with schools, and having mapped out the distance rule, was licensed but unable to carry because of all the overlapping boundary lines.
    That may be the case in some states, but if you read the section of United States Code it says that if you are licensed by the state or jurisdiction where the school is, and a law enforcement agency investigates to make sure you are qualified for your license, that section of the code does not apply to you.

    You have two people standing side by side in front of a school, both open carrying in a state that requires no license to OC. Both are in compliance with state law. One has a concealed license issued by the state police after doing a background check, the other doesn't. Even though they are in the exact same place doing the exact same thing, the federal law only applies to the person without the concealed license.
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  6. #51
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJay View Post
    If alleged Second Amendment supporters are going to question why someone carries a weapon LEGALLY just because they are paranoid...
    Unfortunately you will find a lot of members here who have been drinking the Brady Bunch volunteer victims Kool Aid for so long, that they chant the anti self defense fanatics mantras without even realizing what they are doing or the source of their misconceptions and unfounded fears.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    He should of known better. Dont temp the gods on this one. Ignorance of the law is not a defense, people take there schools serious.....
    That would be what gods? Those with the god complex that themselves above the Constitution? Only person that appears ignorant of the law here, is the arresting officer and those that do not see what is wrong with harassing a law abiding citizen conducting themselves in an orderly lawful manner.
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  7. #52
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    After four continuances, this case was finalized today...

    Nolle Prosequi

    Apparently, the case won't be prosecuted. I don't have any details other than the status of the case through the Virginia court system.

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I am curious if that was good work by a skilled attorney or a prosecutor maybe realizing that he had a case that totally sucked.
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  9. #54
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    I am curious if that was good work by a skilled attorney or a prosecutor maybe realizing that he had a case that totally sucked.
    I have no idea. I do know of a case that I personally witnessed where the attorney and the district attorney played a round of golf. When we appeared in court, the district attorney told the judge that he was accepting a reduced charge because he didn't believe that there was sufficient evidence to prosecute on the original charge.

    The judge's response was "You have got to be kidding me."

    However, since the district attorney was unwilling to prosecute the original charge, the judge went along with the deal. Those things happen. In the end, Mr Alkabily won. There is no felony conviction on his record. By the time he pays his attorney fees, he may not feel like the winner.

  10. #55
    Ex Member Array Mr B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    What about "almost" on school property? From the linked article.

    "A man was seen walking near the school with a semi-automatic gun strapped, to his hip"

    "Police say Alkabily was not on the school campus but close enough to the school that the department could charge him with possessing a firearm while on school property."

    So, now I'm wondering how this is going to work? Looks like we are back to the not on school grounds, but within 1000' of a school. I'm very curious how this will settle out in court. Hopefully he gets a lawyer and fights this. The law has been struck down once. It needs to get struck again, but it seems it will take someone like this to do it.

    To answer someones question on what I would think. There was a time when I would have probable freaked out a bit. But I have read almost no reports of criminals who are OC'ing in a holster. You probably won't see the criminals gun till it's too late. YMMV
    When i lived in california thay had signs like this posted around all of the schools. something like no guns with in a 100 yards of a school. But what always had me wondering was that some schools that were in neighborhoods had houses right next to them. So if the people living next to the schools own guns are they breaking the law ?. I personally would not think they are because they can`t take away your right to own guns just because you live next to a school. And the signs havn`t always been there, they were put up in the last 6-8 years.

    Any thoughts on this ???.

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
    When i lived in california thay had signs like this posted around all of the schools. something like no guns with in a 100 yards of a school. But what always had me wondering was that some schools that were in neighborhoods had houses right next to them. So if the people living next to the schools own guns are they breaking the law ?. I personally would not think they are because they can`t take away your right to own guns just because you live next to a school. And the signs havn`t always been there, they were put up in the last 6-8 years.

    Any thoughts on this ???.
    Fuzzy gray area there. Lots of cities/states like this. Homeowners may be exempt as long as they are on their property, as well as vehicle transportation through the zone.

    I remember one thread that a member had mapped out all the "School Zones" and other "No Gun Zones" drew out the buffer areas, and figured out that there was only like 10-15% of the city he could actually CC in, and the route that he could "legally" take to work was zig zag tour of the city.
    Sticks

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  12. #57
    Member Array dugo's Avatar
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    Hmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    That may be the case in some states, but if you read the section of United States Code it says that if you are licensed by the state or jurisdiction where the school is, and a law enforcement agency investigates to make sure you are qualified for your license, that section of the code does not apply to you.

    You have two people standing side by side in front of a school, both open carrying in a state that requires no license to OC. Both are in compliance with state law. One has a concealed license issued by the state police after doing a background check, the other doesn't. Even though they are in the exact same place doing the exact same thing, the federal law only applies to the person without the concealed license.
    Hmmm. Well, lets see ... I believe that in VA, the guy with the license would be licensed only for concealed carry, as open carry does not require a license. In that case, seems like the license for CCW would not exempt the CCW-licensed person from the Fed statute, if he was open-carrying at the time in question. (The laws that regulate CCW versus open carry are different in VA, too, such as drinking while carrying in a restaurant that sells alcohol, IIRC, so that reinforces this theory.) That may mean both people would be in violation of the Fed law under your hypothetical. May depend on the exact wording of the Fed statute (which I have not looked at), but if not specifically stated otherwise, I'd bet this theory would govern.

  13. #58
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    A related question...
    I see lots of folks (mostly open carry guys), refer to getting arrested or hassled for open carry unjustly as hitting the lottery, having a pay day, etc etc. Does anyone have an example where someone was unjustly charged and then later they sued and cashed a huge check?
    I would think a more typical scenario would be the person is brought to jail for a few hours, a DA gets involved, tells the cops to drop it as doesn't violate the law and everyone goes on their merry way.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJay View Post
    He's of legal age....he's in a state that allows open carry...he has taken the course to get a concealed permit, so he's responsible...and he's not on school property...

    I don't care if he's a Martian...WHAT IS THE ISSUE HERE folks...

    If alleged Second Amendment supporters are going to question why someone carries a weapon LEGALLY just because they are paranoid...
    I think the issue was that he DIDN'T have a legal permit YET!!

    Nicole Bell: "Why did he have a weapon on him?"
    Tiffany Ball: "Because he's nervous -- for protection."
    Nicole Bell: "Does he have a permit to have a weapon?"
    Tiffany Ball: "He's in the process of getting a permit. He has a certificate - he did his 8 hour class and he's waiting."

    In Iowa, you'd better have a permit on you - I asked the County Sheriff and he specifically said not to carry till permit is in your habds!
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  15. #60
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    I remember one thread that a member had mapped out all the "School Zones" and other "No Gun Zones" drew out the buffer areas, and figured out that there was only like 10-15% of the city he could actually CC in, and the route that he could "legally" take to work was zig zag tour of the city.
    Wow.. I'm glad the law was changed in Texas a few years ago to remove such zones. Now we can carry our guns in the parking lot of schools and even right up to the door, we just can't go inside. I wouldn't be surprised if I had mapped out my city before this law was changed I would probably be in a similar situation as there are schools within 1 mile of my house in almost any direction you go.

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