Local Gun Shop Argues Legality of Open Carry in Alabama

Local Gun Shop Argues Legality of Open Carry in Alabama

This is a discussion on Local Gun Shop Argues Legality of Open Carry in Alabama within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My local gun shop was helping me pick a new conceal holster and I mentioned it might print a bit. Then I said "oh well, ...

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Thread: Local Gun Shop Argues Legality of Open Carry in Alabama

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Local Gun Shop Argues Legality of Open Carry in Alabama

    My local gun shop was helping me pick a new conceal holster and I mentioned it might print a bit. Then I said "oh well, open carry is legal too so no biggie".

    The shop guy said "not in this city it isn't, there is an ordinance". I said "open carry is legal in the state of Alabama and state law and over rides local laws". (I think I am right, sorry, I don't OC at all).

    He said "yea, well you can fight that battle if you want to".

    Now I am not an OC person, I don't think it is worth the hassle. BUT, I AM pro-right to carry. It pisses me off when a GUN SHOP doesn't seem to know the law. I mean heck, they give away 2nd amendment bumper stickers.

    So I guess my question is, do local ordinance laws over ride state law or vice versa. Again, I don't OC, just curious.


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    Member Array leibdav1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    My local gun shop was helping me pick a new conceal holster and I mentioned it might print a bit. Then I said "oh well, open carry is legal too so no biggie".

    The shop guy said "not in this city it isn't, there is an ordinance". I said "open carry is legal in the state of Alabama and state law and over rides local laws". (I think I am right, sorry, I don't OC at all).

    He said "yea, well you can fight that battle if you want to".

    Now I am not an OC person, I don't think it is worth the hassle. BUT, I AM pro-right to carry. It pisses me off when a GUN SHOP doesn't seem to know the law. I mean heck, they give away 2nd amendment bumper stickers.

    So I guess my question is, do local ordinance laws over ride state law or vice versa. Again, I don't OC, just curious.
    It's not so much them not knowing the law, but them probably meaning something else.

    While it may be legal at the state level, assuming there is a state law prohibiting local law from preempting state law, it would technically be legal at the local level. However, that's not to say that local LEO wouldn't hassle OCers just because the local chief doesn't agree with it. Rather than question someone that was open carrying because they were open carrying, they would bring up disturbing the peace and brandishing a weapon. It's happened here in Michigan.

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    Senior Member Array Ring's Avatar
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    if your state has pre-emption, you are right, if not, he is right... but in either case, local cops can be problem... in ohio we have pre-emption, the state gun laws over ride all local.. the locals dont seam to care.. so things happen.. then you go to court and sue the city and win cash... its happened time and time again

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    Member Array db4usa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ring View Post
    if your state has pre-emption, you are right, if not, he is right... but in either case, local cops can be problem... in ohio we have pre-emption, the state gun laws over ride all local.. the locals dont seam to care.. so things happen.. then you go to court and sue the city and win cash... its happened time and time again
    Then the LEO's follow you everywhere and write you for any slip up you might make. It happens here in St. Louis. You win a battle but lose the war in the end. And all of this for standing up for your rights. Until it becomes a national law, I'll be content to CCW.

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    Well, exactly how much legal OCing could possibly goof up your schedule & disrupt your daily routine depends on where you live.
    If you live someplace where local LEOs are required by local/city law to respond to all MWAG calls (Man With A Gun) & some sheeple "drops a dime" on you and phones 911 with a OMG! MWAG!...then (for sure) you are going to get delayed by Law Enforcement until you get sorted out.

    Is that fair? No.
    Will it happen anyway? Yes.
    Is it worth it? Zup to you to decide.

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    Member Array yale's Avatar
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    You should ask this question at Alabama . You would probably get more and better answers.
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    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    As here in Missouri things can be a little "GREY". US laws are based on PROHIBITIONS, laws are enacted making certain acts illegal, anything not expressly prohibited is legal. In Missouri there is no state law prohibiting OC, there for it is legal, but since no state law PERMITS OC pre-emption does not apply and cities are able to pass ordinances against OC. Things can get a little dicey with LEO who think US law is baced on PERMISSIONS where everything is illegal except acts specifically permitted, as in the old Soviet Union.

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    From the Alabama code:
    Alabama Code - Section 11-80-11: REGULATION OF GUN SHOWS, ETC.; AUTHORITY TO BRING OR SETTLE CERTAIN LAWSUITS RESERVED TO ATTORNEY GENERAL

    (a) No county or municipal corporation, instrumentality, or political subdivision thereof, by ordinance, resolution, or other enactment, shall regulate in any manner gun shows, the possession, ownership, transport, carrying, transfer, sale, purchase, licensing, registration or use of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, firearms dealers, or dealers in firearm components.
    (emphasis added)
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    Member Array Bhamrichard's Avatar
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    The shop guy said "not in this city it isn't, there is an ordinance"
    Such an ordinance would be illegal, and unenforceable. The state complete preempts any city, county, or other municipal government.
    I'm curious which city this is in Alabama, as the city attorney obviously needs some education.
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhamrichard View Post
    Such an ordinance would be illegal, and unenforceable. The state complete preempts any city, county, or other municipal government.
    I'm curious which city this is in Alabama, as the city attorney obviously needs some education.
    Good ol Hoover, AL.

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    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    It pisses me off when a GUN SHOP doesn't seem to know the law. I mean heck, they give away 2nd amendment bumper stickers.
    I would say that half or less of the gun shops I go in know the laws on carry. I would not trust most of them. I've had the same discussion at one. Then one day as I am buying ammo while open carrying 2 LEO's walk in. One of them makes a joke about how much the SD ammo is and we go back a forth a bit about it. I pay for it and leave. I guess if they were right I would have been detained. But they were wrong.

    Check this section of OCDO for some good info on AL.

    OpenCarry.org - State Information For Alabama
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    Member Array fox2102's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Good ol Hoover, AL.
    Which gun store was this? Hoover tactical firearms has always seemed to me to be pro-open carry seeing as how they let a new crew film a story about how open carry is legal in alabama in their store. If it was the gun cellar... well that could be why don't seem to be doing to well with business

    And you are right. All matters pertaining the carry of firearms is left up to the state legislature. Local governments cannot put restriction on carry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Good ol Hoover, AL.
    Well there you go . . . what would one expect from a city that names itself after a vacuum cleaner?

    FL has firearm legislation preemption. However, the statute has no enforcement clause or penalty for municipalities that enact or carry ordinances affecting firearms. There is currently a bill being discussed/tabled/discussed that will add penalties to the preemption statute. Many counties have both old (before preemption) and new ordinances that will have to be stricken if the bill is signed into law.

    OC in FL is very restrictive (hunting and fishing mainly) and a bill is being presented on restoring OC for holders of CWFLs. The main drive behind that bill is to prevent "Improper display" charges should one's firearm be inadvertantly exposed while CC'ing. The new gov. has stated he will sign that bill into law.

    I am conducting an ongoing "study" by asking LEOs about CC laws, and surprisingly (or not) I am finding the majority do not know the statutes or aren't even close. They still spit back some 2-3 motion rule or what some sergeant told them years ago, none of which are in the statutes.

    So when dealing with any local LEOs, don't expect them to say, "Oh, you're okay," and send you on your way post haste.
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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    A gun shop didn't know the law huh? That isn't a new thing. Heck, the LEO's often don't know the law as it pertains to OC, why would you expect a gun shop to know them any better than those charged with enforcing them?
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fox2102 View Post
    Which gun store was this? Hoover tactical firearms has always seemed to me to be pro-open carry seeing as how they let a new crew film a story about how open carry is legal in alabama in their store. If it was the gun cellar... well that could be why don't seem to be doing to well with business

    And you are right. All matters pertaining the carry of firearms is left up to the state legislature. Local governments cannot put restriction on carry.
    It wasn't Hoover Tactical. That is where I just bought my CZ last week. I really like those guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    A gun shop didn't know the law huh? That isn't a new thing. Heck, the LEO's often don't know the law as it pertains to OC, why would you expect a gun shop to know them any better than those charged with enforcing them?
    Because, in my business, I know everything there is to know about what I sell, how I can sell, and how it can be used. I know a lot more than all my customers. That is my job, to be an "expert" in my given field. I expect gun store owners to know more than me with all things concerning guns. If you sell them for carry, you should know where you can and can't carry, how you can carry, and so on. Just the way business should be done IMO.

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