The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude

This is a discussion on The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm all for open carry! I would like to see some education required similar to concealed carry requirements. I know I learned alot from ccw ...

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Thread: The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude

  1. #136
    Member Array RichB70's Avatar
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    I'm all for open carry! I would like to see some education required similar to concealed carry requirements. I know I learned alot from ccw classes. What I learned was mostly for my own good.


    Rich

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  3. #137
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichB70 View Post
    I'm all for open carry! I would like to see some education required similar to concealed carry requirements. I know I learned alot from ccw classes. What I learned was mostly for my own good.


    Rich
    I don't know that I believe that education should be required, however, I think education is a very very important thing, and that people that carry should take some kind of defensive pistol class
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

  4. #138
    New Member Array tombuttner's Avatar
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    In my humble opinion…

    Open carry is inviting a negative response from all sides. LEO's are threatened. As law-abiding citizens, our aim should be to complement the services that they provide, not replace them. Open carrying makes you a target, just like a service-member travelling overseas in uniform. It singles you out as someone that should be eliminated first.

    The purpose of concealed carry is to give you options, if/when to react to threats, and with what level of force. Open carrying limits those options, I believe, by singling the individual out to any potential threat.

    EXAMPLE: Guy walks into a store with the intention of robbing the place. He clearly doesn't care about the law, so he is carrying concealed illegally. While standing in line, pretending to be a normal customer, he notices that the man in front of him, and the woman behind him are both open-carrying pistols. This individual then has far too much opportunity to do irreparable harm to both of those individuals before he does anything else.

    Obviously that is just an example. I in no way intend to disrespect the right to open-carry; however, it it my personal belief that open-carrying will put you in far more danger than concealed-carrying. If you are qualified to own a gun, then you should probably be qualified to get a concealed carry permit. If not… well… that's on you.

    That is my philosophy. Feel free to have one of your own.

  5. #139
    New Member Array tombuttner's Avatar
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    Also, in regards to LEO's and open-carry. I would seem that they might feel like their authority is being undermined. I'm sure that they don't worry about every gun owner as being a threat to their paycheck, but all uniformed services, military, or civilian LEO's are trained to identify weapons, and those that carry them as potential threats. Why put yourself in that position in the first place.

    Again, just my philosophy.

  6. #140
    New Member Array spider7779's Avatar
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    I open carry and concealed carry at the same time . I think elementery schools should teach firearm safety, middle school firearm training with air guns, high school .22 caliber. I think all law abiding citizens should be required to carry,open or concealed. This would be required by law.
    people say ther are to many hot heads to do that , I think the training in school would alleviate this. When I carry ,I am more relaxed,patient,and alert.Could you imagine a society wher more good guys carried than bad guys.I think more bad guys carry than good guys. Bad guys would not open carry, would they? The LEOs here in so.indiana like to see open carry, they appreciate extra back up ,if needed. As a U.S. citizen it is my responsability to protect myself,my famaly, my property. If every household had an LEO 24/7 , an LEO for each person that left the house.....Have a nice day
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  7. #141
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Spider, the schools already have enough trouble teaching what they do, as evidenced by your spelling. And what does open carry have to do with each household having an LEO in it?
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  8. #142
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombuttner View Post
    In my humble opinion…

    Open carry is inviting a negative response from all sides. LEO's are threatened. As law-abiding citizens, our aim should be to complement the services that they provide, not replace them. Open carrying makes you a target, just like a service-member travelling overseas in uniform. It singles you out as someone that should be eliminated first.

    The purpose of concealed carry is to give you options, if/when to react to threats, and with what level of force. Open carrying limits those options, I believe, by singling the individual out to any potential threat.

    EXAMPLE: Guy walks into a store with the intention of robbing the place. He clearly doesn't care about the law, so he is carrying concealed illegally. While standing in line, pretending to be a normal customer, he notices that the man in front of him, and the woman behind him are both open-carrying pistols. This individual then has far too much opportunity to do irreparable harm to both of those individuals before he does anything else.

    Obviously that is just an example. I in no way intend to disrespect the right to open-carry; however, it it my personal belief that open-carrying will put you in far more danger than concealed-carrying. If you are qualified to own a gun, then you should probably be qualified to get a concealed carry permit. If not… well… that's on you.

    That is my philosophy. Feel free to have one of your own.
    Your point about the open carriers being the first target has some merit, in my mind, but here is a case to chew on. A BG walks into a store where a guy is open carrying. The BG walks right up to the cashier and fires two shots into his chest. The open carrier shoots the BG...

    Gun Owner Saves Lives In The Richmond VA Golden Market Shooting
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    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

  9. #143
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuchoUno View Post
    Ideal conversation:

    911 Operator: "911"

    Panicked Citizen: "I see a man with a gun!!!"

    911 Operator: "What is he doing with it?"

    Panicked Citizen: "Well...nothing. He's just carrying it around in his holster."

    911 Operator: "This line is for emergencies. Call us back when you have one."

    Click.
    Good example, I agree. I work with many LEO's and generally, they don't like OC, it's a possible threat they have to deal with, and I understand that, but I don't agree with removing that right to make them more comfortable. That's just the lay of the land and they have to deal with it instead of constricting someone's right to make the job easier. Most don't agree with that thought, but that's the beauty of this country, and I believe one of the reasons it exists.
    Light travels faster than sound...thats why some people appear bright before they speak

  10. #144
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    How often has this very same BS been repeated on this forum? As if telling the same frivolous fear fantasy over and over again will somehow make it a legitimate concern founded in fact. It is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by tombuttner View Post
    EXAMPLE: Guy walks into a store with the intention of robbing the place. He clearly doesn't care about the law, so he is carrying concealed illegally. While standing in line, pretending to be a normal customer, he notices that the man in front of him, and the woman behind him are both open-carrying pistols. This individual then has far too much opportunity to do irreparable harm to both of those individuals before he does anything else.
    Same old Brady Bunch the sky is falling fabricated BS. If that fantasy fear had any basis in fact you would have been able to quote a news story not make one up. You would be able to provide an abundance of evidence of it actually happening. Fact is that if you research for the next two years you will find one maybe two examples of a civilian ever being targeted because they open carried. You will find more examples of open carrying deterring crime.

    Could some one be targeted for open carrying of course it can, just as someone can be targeted for concealed carry. However the evidence shows that open carry is more likely to deter a crime from ever happening. Ask any convicted criminal what their response is on seeing someone open carry, the average response is that they will go find an easier target. Criminals are not warriors, they are lazy, looking for the easy way to make money. The last thing most want is to do is actually work for the money they get. A gun fight is hard dangerous work by any ones definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    It's whatever the sheep get used to...
    EXACTLY
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    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  11. #145
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    In a nutshell, everyone SHOULD be able to carry any way they prefer as long as they are law abiding citizens. Will that be the case? Who knows...
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    Light travels faster than sound...thats why some people appear bright before they speak

  12. #146
    Member Array CaptainHaplo's Avatar
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    While one poster is long gone .... he brought up an interesting point - though I have to take the opposite tack...
    I will throw this out as a hypothetical, so none of you CC'ers out there take offense because this is just to think about...

    What if we reveresed it? What if - as was pointed out early in this thread - Concealed Carry was seen as the "threat". Could it not be stated that: "I don't believe in concealed carry, it shouldn't exist. Hiding a gun should be a sign that someone is up to no good"?

    It is how our forefathers would have seen it... skulking around with a hidden, dangerous weapon....
    Just take a moment to chew on the thought....

    Now - it must be accepted that times, they have changed. Today a firearm breeds fear in many people because firearms have been vilified. They kill people, after all.... except they don't - its the person that pulls the trigger that does that.... If the general populace actually THOUGHT about it - the idea of hiding a firearm would be seen as more "suspicious".

    I support both types of carry - and recognize they both have times when they are appropriate - just as there are times when carrying ISN'T the best choice at all.

    If you want to be covered - carry both ways..... Its always smart to have a BUG anyway.

  13. #147
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazybastid8 View Post
    I don't believe in open carry, it shouldn't exist. If someone qualifies to open carry, they should be able to conceal carry.
    Whether one personally believes in open carry or not as 2nd amendment advocates we should not say it should not exist. If you look at the 2nd amendment as written it is more in line with open carry as opposed to concealed carry. Are not we all in this together. Just saying. Each form has its pros and cons but both are a right.

    In most, if not all, states that have open carry there are little, or no, restrictions to open carry. However in almost every state that has concealed carry there are numerous restrictions and paid permits are mandated.

    Here is some food for thought..... It has been stated by many that criminals are the ones that conceal carry and will not open carry. I guess one could say we are more in line with criminals when we have permits and conceal. So if someone sees us "printing" they might very well feel we are possibly a criminal.
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  14. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo View Post
    Could it not be stated that: "I don't believe in concealed carry, it shouldn't exist. Hiding a gun should be a sign that someone is up to no good"?
    That was the basis for gun permits. It was perceived that anyone that was sneaking around with a hidden gun was by definition deceitful and most likely had nefarious intent so the idiots in government decided it was necessary to vet anyone who wanted to carry a concealed weapon. Which is why concealed carry permits are required in most states and most states do not required a permit to open carry
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  15. #149
    Member Array jrclen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombuttner View Post
    EXAMPLE: Guy walks into a store with the intention of robbing the place. He clearly doesn't care about the law, so he is carrying concealed illegally. While standing in line, pretending to be a normal customer, he notices that the man in front of him, and the woman behind him are both open-carrying pistols. This individual then has far too much opportunity to do irreparable harm to both of those individuals before he does anything else.
    Or, perhaps the would be robber takes the opportunity to turn around and walk out of the store, finding the situation far to scary. He is there after all to rob the place, not necessarily to engage in a gunfight.
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  16. #150
    VIP Member Array SatCong's Avatar
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    I'am too old to worry what people think, they well get over it. I carry both ways when I want too.Been doing that, for long time.The LEO's I talk to love it.
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