The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude

This is a discussion on The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yep, Here's a response, I think you are way off base. First off, the people you see in VA open carrying aren't doing it because ...

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 156
Like Tree189Likes

Thread: The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shelby County TN
    Posts
    11,067
    Yep, Here's a response, I think you are way off base.

    First off, the people you see in VA open carrying aren't doing it because they "Don't qualify for concealed carry", they do it because they want to or because of the idiotic law that forces them to either open carry in an establishment that serves alcohol or leave it in the car.

    Second, where we lived in West Tennessee (and hopefully will live again in the near future, like this summer) open carry was very, very common. There were hundreds of times that I OC'ed and no one even noticed. Now, was that because it was common, partly I'm sure it was. but it was also because the majority of people live their lives in condition white and don't notice what is going on around them. A bad guy rushing into a bank to rob it isn't necessarily going to be scanning everyone for a gun. He is most likely tunneled in on the teller or the guard. It really isn't a concern. And, I already posted a link to a story that disproves your assumption that OC is tactically unsound.

    I'm glad you think everyone should be able to carry as long as they are legally able. But putting qualifiers on it like no OC negates you reported belief in the second Amendment. The 2A doesn't say "...shall not be infringed. As long as it is concealed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazybastid8 View Post
    Any response? Please?
    And by this one post I am now100% sure that you are here only to cause trouble and to be a troll.
    SIGguy229 and NYCrulesU like this.
    ,=====o00o _
    //___l__,\____\,__
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    Member Array celticredneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Amelia Virginia
    Posts
    383
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazybastid8 View Post
    I just believe that any law abiding citizen, w/o a felony record should be able to carry a firearm. I think it is best concealed though. Why tip off a bad guy that you have a weapon? Cops carry concealed all the time, I feel every citizen should have this right. If I was a typical NYPD Cop,( most NYPD Cops believe in the 2nd amendment, the politicians don't) who believes no one should have guns, why would I extoll the virtues of concealed carry? Why tip off your hand with open carry. You are a law abiding customer in a bank, robbers come in with guns to rob it, they see your open carry gun and take you out right away. If it was concealed they wouldn't notice you. Where I live now, in Va people open carry because they didn't qualify for conceal carry. This is why I came out with my conceal carry statement. If you are a law abiding citizen, you should be able to carry, but concealed is your best mode. How would you feel if you were in a minor fender bender and the other person was irate and wanted to get back at you. They see your gun on your hip and tell the police that you pulled your gun out and threatened them. Now you go to jail. If it was concealed, they would never think to make up a story like that.
    As a Virginia resident for all of my 68 years, I can tell you that the vast majority of open carriers here "do not carry openly because they can't qualify for a CHP. Most of the open carriers I know also have their CHP and the few I know who do not don't have them, either didn't apply for one or allowed the permit to lapse, because they firmly believe that permitted carry of any kind infringes on their constitutional rights. Rights are God given. Permits are issued by the state. I have a CHP and carry both ways. Yes, there are some situations where I do feel concealed carry is better, but only so I do not frighten the unenlightened folks from the socialist states to the north. We have a lot of then around here due to the presence of a large army base.

  4. #18
    Member Array Keisukekun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    93
    I think open carry has its merits. Sometimes CC is impractical. I would think CC is more appropriate when running errands around town or populated areas however I would prefer open carry if I lived in a more rural setting or anywhere thats not a huge congested urban area. I have family that horseback rides up in north florida and OC is more practical in that situation.

    But back to the topic of the thread like I said I think CC is better in more populated areas. In these areas there is much more crime and so LEO's will be more jumpy about man with a gun calls. I live near miami which, according to FBI statistics had almost 6000 violent crimes and 60 murders in 2009. In comparison Fort Walton Beach up in north florida had just 65 violent crimes and 1 murder. When your having over 16 crimes a day someone calls about a man with a gun a LEO is gonna assume the worst while in Fort Walton wheres theres one crime week maybe they will be much less alarmed by a report of a man with a gun
    Glockwatcher likes this.

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,086
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazybastid8 View Post
    Any response? Please?
    Ok, here is a response: In my opinion, you could not be more wrong. That is just my opinion, but you asked for it, so I'm sharing it.

    I rarely open carry. But, on occasion, I find it more convenient. Is it possible that someone could see that I'm armed and decide to attack me based solely on that? Well certainly it is possible, but lots of things are possible. I try to base my life and my daily routine on threat assessment and deciding what threats are the most realistic. Based on the statistics (or lack thereof) I have been able to find on persons attacked simply because they were visibly armed, I don't consider it a factor. Especially if you include LEOs in those statistics. In most of those cases, they were attacked because they were LEOs, not simply because they were visibly armed. There are also very few recorded, verifiable instances of open carry preventing an attack or an incident. So, in my threat assessment...it is a wash. So, while I generally choose to carry in a concealed fashion, I see no verifiable and proven reason never to carry openly.

    On those occasions when I do engage in open carry, my situational awareness is cranked up a bit. I also never open carry in a holster that does not have some sort of positive retention, because I do believe it increases the risk of having your weapon taken away in a fight.

    As a LEO, I have no issue at all with somebody who chooses to open carry (assuming it is legal in that jurisdiction). The way I figure, if somebody is openly carrying a firearm, it is very unlikely they have any criminal intent. If they did, they would most likely be hiding the firearm until they got ready to act. As a LEO, when I am dealing with somebody who is openly carrying, I have the benefit of knowing they are armed with at least one firearm and knowing where at least one of their guns is located.

    As long as it is legal, OC is just as viable an option as concealed carry, in my opinion.
    Gonzo
    MikeNice likes this.
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array RemMod597's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    behind you...
    Posts
    686
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazybastid8 View Post
    I don't believe in open carry, it shouldn't exist. If someone qualifies to open carry, they should be able to conceal carry.
    Open carry is very nice to have for convenience sake.
    Example: I stopped to get gas yesterday, but was too lazy to grab a cover garment from the back, so I just open carried while tanking the car. No fear that I would get arrested just for that.
    (By the way, the gas station was packed and nobody even gave my sidearm a knowing glance.)

    If my cover garment exposes my gun, I'm cool with it, because I won't get in trouble over it.

    Open carry being legal does not mean everyone will run around openly carrying.
    It does mean a little less stress during the daily carry.
    Last edited by RemMod597; April 20th, 2011 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Correcting Illiterate Keyboard Issues
    tommy62 likes this.


    The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,745
    Crazybastid8 welcome to the forum.
    It was ninety two degrees here yesterday. Only two more months before summer! With the difference in climate between New York and the South West or gulf coast I can understand why you might not see the appeal of open carry. As it is now I have no choice in Texas but to conceal. There are times where due to the weather (104 degrees 80 percent humidity) that it is not exactly comfortable. I know some folks that just don't carry when it gets hot out. It would be nice to have open carry as an option.

    As far as the tactical aspect goes, How many times when you were working uniform were you assaulted by someone who picked you out for no other reason than you had a weapon visible on your hip? I am not talking about someone you had stopped or dealt with on a call. I mean someone that just walked up to you while you were standing on the street and attempted to take your weapon. Is that more the same or less than the number of times it happened when you were working plain clothes and your weapon was concealed?
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  8. #22
    Member Array GrandBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    in the South,by God!
    Posts
    213
    I don't believe in open carry, it shouldn't exist. If someone qualifies to open carry, they should be able to conceal carry.
    I believe that every one should open carry and it should exist. If someone qualifies to conceal carry they should be able to open carry.

    The way I see it, there are really one two reasons for open carry. One of course, and the most important one is for self defense. The other reason is to educate transplanted Yankees that come from up North, stay in the South because all of a sudden they realized what they were missing, and educate them that guns are not the all encompassing evil things that they were taught from birth in the great North.

    That attitude of yours is one of the reasons that we have over 20,000 laws on the books, most of them being as worthless as mammary glands on a boar hog. Guns laws only serve to tie the hands of law abiding citizens, as an ex cop you must know that the crooks dont follow laws anyway, they do whatever they dang well please. I wish everyone would tote in plain view. It might wake some people up.

    Welcome to the forum. I'm sure that your opinions will "jazz" it up some.
    TN_Mike likes this.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    653
    Open carry is overblown .... most will still conceal .... they just won't worry when their shirt flies open. The best part is the sheriff promising his deputies will "Draw Down" on OC people, and there will be tragedies

  10. #24
    Member Array celticredneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Amelia Virginia
    Posts
    383
    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    Yep, Here's a response, I think you are way off base.

    First off, the people you see in VA open carrying aren't doing it because they "Don't qualify for concealed carry", they do it because they want to or because of the idiotic law that forces them to either open carry in an establishment that serves alcohol or leave it in the car.

    Second, where we lived in West Tennessee (and hopefully will live again in the near future, like this summer) open carry was very, very common. There were hundreds of times that I OC'ed and no one even noticed. Now, was that because it was common, partly I'm sure it was. but it was also because the majority of people live their lives in condition white and don't notice what is going on around them. A bad guy rushing into a bank to rob it isn't necessarily going to be scanning everyone for a gun. He is most likely tunneled in on the teller or the guard. It really isn't a concern. And, I already posted a link to a story that disproves your assumption that OC is tactically unsound.

    I'm glad you think everyone should be able to carry as long as they are legally able. But putting qualifiers on it like no OC negates you reported belief in the second Amendment. The 2A doesn't say "...shall not be infringed. As long as it is concealed."



    And by this one post I am now100% sure that you are here only to cause trouble and to be a troll.
    Just an update, Mike. In 2010 the Virginia concealed carry in restaurants which serve alcohol was passed and signed by Governor MacDonald. There are still a few problems such as not being able to have a glass of wine or a beer with dinner, but it is a start. We (VCDL) just managed to get this one pushed through before state senators Marsh and Saslaw created the "Death Star sub-committee which now kills all gun related legi8slation in direct violation of the senate rules. One other problem is that LEOs, retired LEOs, Commonwealth Attorneys and Assistant Commonwealth attorneys among other privileged classes are exempt from the not drinking part.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    As I have stated before, I think OC will only become more prevalent. LE is behind the curve in its handling of OC and is struggling to come up to speed. It is something that they will have to deal with so the sooner they establish and institute decent procedures, the better.
    TN_Mike and NYCrulesU like this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  12. #26
    Member Array nightsonge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spiro,Oklahoma
    Posts
    394
    When open carrying, an officer is aware that you have a gun, and where it is, a criminal on the other hand is unlikely to open carry as the LAST thing they want is to draw any attention towards themselves.
    A 1911 is Not an obsession, it's simply a recognition that it's THE Gun. :-) All others are runner ups. And hey, if all else fails, aim for the nose and fling it to knock out your foe. Let's see y'all do that with a kel-Tec. ;-)

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    7,854
    As an LEO, I don't have an issue, in the personal sense. But my personal views are that it looks kinda of silly, and sometimes I am embarassed for the person. Other than in circumstances where legal CC is prohibited, I question the wisdom and reasoning.
    But, I fully support the right to do so.

    For me, the advantages of CC far outweigh OC. Sure, it is a legal right, but just because we can, doesn't mean we should unless there is a good reason.
    I have carried CC in all kinds of weather, hot and cold without issue.
    We should be concerned about what people think, because by turning people off, we may hurt our ability to reach them. Just my opinion.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shelby County TN
    Posts
    11,067
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    As an LEO, I don't have an issue, in the personal sense. But my personal views are that it looks kinda of silly, and sometimes I am embarassed for the person. Other than in circumstances where legal CC is prohibited, I question the wisdom and reasoning.
    But, I fully support the right to do so.

    For me, the advantages of CC far outweigh OC. Sure, it is a legal right, but just because we can, doesn't mean we should unless there is a good reason.
    I have carried CC in all kinds of weather, hot and cold without issue.
    We should be concerned about what people think, because by turning people off, we may hurt our ability to reach them. Just my opinion.
    My openly carried gun has started many conversations on guns, the carrying of guns, what kind it is, why do I feel I need to carry it and other subjects. All of those conversations have ended well. Most have ended with the person asking the initial question saying that they learned something, wanted to find out more about it, liked it or was interested in shooting and/or carrying for the first time themselves. The only experience I had that was ever even close to negative was with an off duty LEO who wasn't even in the city he served giving me grief about it while he was standing in my drive way. And a call to his commander ended his attitude nicely. We ended up being less than friends but at least friendly to each other when we saw each other in the neighborhood.

    I have come away from talking to people who had never seen a civilian carrying a gun, because they had moved to West Tennessee from some anti-gun Northern state, telling me that they really liked the idea and wanted to find out how to get a permit to carry themselves. I have always considered myself an ambassador to the non-gun or non-carrying crowd, and I can honestly say that my openly carried gun has opened the door to more than a few conversions from anti-gun to pro-gun/self defense.

    I see nothing unwise in that at all.
    ,=====o00o _
    //___l__,\____\,__
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    7,854
    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    My openly carried gun has started many conversations on guns, the carrying of guns, what kind it is, why do I feel I need to carry it and other subjects. All of those conversations have ended well. Most have ended with the person asking the initial question saying that they learned something, wanted to find out more about it, liked it or was interested in shooting and/or carrying for the first time themselves. The only experience I had that was ever even close to negative was with an off duty LEO who wasn't even in the city he served giving me grief about it while he was standing in my drive way. And a call to his commander ended his attitude nicely. We ended up being less than friends but at least friendly to each other when we saw each other in the neighborhood.

    I have come away from talking to people who had never seen a civilian carrying a gun, because they had moved to West Tennessee from some anti-gun Northern state, telling me that they really liked the idea and wanted to find out how to get a permit to carry themselves. I have always considered myself an ambassador to the non-gun or non-carrying crowd, and I can honestly say that my openly carried gun has opened the door to more than a few conversions from anti-gun to pro-gun/self defense.

    I see nothing unwise in that at all.
    I understand your point Mike, and support what you do. I was sitting in a mall one time and a guy was open carrying. Of course questions were asked, and the young man who was OCing did what I thought was a great job of answering questions and trying to be a good example. Problem was, when he left, they were talking among themselves about what a paranoid moron he was and in general speaking badly of him. I thought about it for a minute and it occured to me that of course noone is going to heckle a man to his face while he is blatenly carrying a firearm.

    Me, I am not an ambassodor of anything, just a man following my own convictions and getting through life. But I try to look at things from the other sides perspective.
    Glockwatcher and keb73 like this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Under a rock.
    Posts
    1,763
    I've often carried quite a bit in VA, I have a CCW. I've seen 4 people OC in the last 2 days in my area.

    "A right unexercised, is a right lost."

    I'm sure you have heard the old "give them an inch, they take a mile" phrase (and the 3087508074 other versions of it.) If you allow the politicians to remove OC legality, its just opening the door for them to go after CC next. Besides OC has been proven to be a remarkable tool to help others understand gun rights. I've met a couple people OCing who had no idea carrying was legal, and never thought about guns until they met someone OC who took them to the range, and etc. Now they licensed progun activists. Doesn't sound too "pointless" to me. I had the cops called on me ONCE, my ex and myself were at a 24 hour pharmacy at about 2am, and we were both OCing.I truly understand the concern given the hour of night, and how secluded the store was. Neither officer said anything to me or my ex. They just walked in the store and hung out until we left. No harm, no foul. Worse was when I was asked to leave walmart by a rather small-framed unarmed(!) security guard. Its a Walmart store not close to my house that I rarely goto. Other than that, I usually got compliments or people wouldn't notice. {Note:I'm heavily tattooed with a full beard. With or without visible firearm, I've come to the unfortunate realization alot of folks seem to act intimidated around me}

    Of course there is negative reactions/issues that go along with OCing as well. I do not open carry for various reasons currently. I have a toddler aged child and usually if I'm out and about its with her. (Or on my college campus, no need for explanation why I don't carry there)

    I support OC for legal, responsible citizens with proper holsters.


    "To blame a gun for a mans decision is to foolishly attribute free will to an inanimate object"- Colion Noir.

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

can you carry a bb gun in virginia
,
evidence that open carry makes you a target
,

leo attitude

,
leo veiws on open carry in virginia 2011
,

leo's attitude

,
leos attitude
,
michigan open carry pamphlet
,
open carry williamsburg va
,
texas open carry
,
va open carry while drinking
,
what should i tell someone about why i open carry
,
youtube open carry
Click on a term to search for related topics.