The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude

This is a discussion on The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Wheelspinner I personally feel open carry to be extreme. And I support your right to say what you did. I will never ...

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Thread: The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspinner View Post
    I personally feel open carry to be extreme. And I support your right to say what you did. I will never open carry. As I said earlier why do we post in these forums with assumed names and then in the same sentence want to carry a firearm openly.

    IMHO some things are better hidden.
    We use screen names on this forum and any other to protect mainly from ID theft, and in this case specifically, theft of firearms from our homes. It is a very simply and cheap process to get public records on someone such as home address and phone numbers with just a name spelled correctly.

    I have nothing to hide. Hence, open carry.
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  3. #62
    Ex Member Array William Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspinner View Post
    I personally feel open carry to be extreme. And I support your right to say what you did. I will never open carry. As I said earlier why do we post in these forums with assumed names and then in the same sentence want to carry a firearm openly.

    IMHO some things are better hidden.
    Others feel that carrying a weapon is extreme, whether they can see it or not. Simply put, you cannot be against open carry, and say you're pro-gun rights. It doesn't work. Anyone who says they are sounds about as foolish as the Fudds who pay for NRA memberships, and collect bolt, lever action, and muzzle loaders, but think AR-15s should be banned for civilian use. They're not pro-gun rights, either, only pro-hunting, which isn't a right at all.

    No one's asking, or demanding, you open carry a gun. But when people who supposedly believe in the 2A start making exceptions, our whole foundation falls apart. That's like people who support the 1A, except for: pornography, conservative talk shows, gay comedy, and gangsta rap. They don't support free speech at all. They only support things that fall in line with their way of thinking. That way of thinking is beyond liberal; it's borderline fascist.

    In my opinion, I'd rather know who was armed. Criminals don't open carry.
    TN_Mike, FTG-05 and Dumbledork like this.

  4. #63
    Member Array normAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandBob View Post
    ... The other reason is to educate transplanted Yankees that come from up North, stay in the South because all of a sudden they realized what they were missing, and educate them that guns are not the all encompassing evil things that they were taught from birth in the great North.

    That attitude of yours is one of the reasons that we have over 20,000 laws on the books, most of them being as worthless as mammary glands on a boar hog.....
    What makes you think those of us from up North don't take our guns and gun rights seriously? You don't get much further north than Alaska and we have more gun ownership per capita and less restrictive gun laws than any southern state.

    That attitude of yours is why we tend to make fun of southerners up here.

  5. #64
    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Actually "normAK" we consider Alaska to be a western state rather than a northern state. ha At the risk of sounding "rodney King-ish" we all need to stick up for each other as pro 2A'ers. I've seen division among bowhunters as to whether compound or traditional bows, division among hunters over AR platforms, division among Black powder hunters over inlines or sidelocks, and now division over OC or CC. As hunters we are losing about 2% a year from our sport. Gun owners, thank God are a growing number, but face it we are still a minority, I guess what I'm trying to say is we need to stick up for each other as law abiding gun owners and carriers, no matter what we own or how we carry. It's us against the world, and there aren't enough of us that we can afford to alienate anyone. We need to remember who the enemy is. We don't need to fight among ourselves because one guy's shirt covers his gun, and the next guy's doesn't. I know I'm new here, but sometimes I just have to throw in my $.02
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
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  6. #65
    Member Array MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theskunk
    Who is going to walk into a 7/11, or a hospital, or a Wal-Mart with a Colt 1911 on their side.
    Lotsa people. Why wouldn't I? I'm not a prohibited person, I'm in legal possession of a legal item, the proper question is why would someone NOT carry in those places? All 3 listed have been targets of criminal activity. Why would I want to deliberately be unable to protect myself?

    Quote Originally Posted by skunk
    What you will see is, citizens taking a gun from their car in a self defense situation
    If they can get to it in time... here in WI we (currently) have a stupid "unloaded & encased" law.

    Quote Originally Posted by skunk
    if his men encounter someone with a pistol, sooner or later there will be 'bad outcome'.
    Especially if the LEOs forget the law. It can get expensive for the taxpayers. In some states, LEOs have to pay for their own fines/judgments if they were acting illegally. That's justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazybastid8
    I don't believe in open carry, it shouldn't exist.
    If someone qualifies to open carry, they should be able to conceal carry.
    I'll agree with your second sentence, but not the first.
    If you don't want to carry openly, don't.
    But you can't force your choices on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazybastid8
    Why tip off a bad guy that you have a weapon?
    ...You are a law abiding customer in a bank, robbers come in with guns to rob it, they see your open carry gun and take you out right away. If it was concealed they wouldn't notice you.
    With the tens of thousands of people who OC every day, surely you can provide us with links to news reports of the multitude of incidents where this has happened.
    In reality, most people don't notice I'm carrying, & that's under relaxed conditions (grocery shopping). In a tense situation, the robber will run in focussed on the teller, get what he wants, & try to leave. He'll have tunnel vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazy
    How would you feel if you were in a minor fender bender and the other person was irate and wanted to get back at you. They see your gun on your hip and tell the police that you pulled your gun out and threatened them.
    When the Nice Officers came to talk with me about it, I'd ask them to have him describe what's unusual about my pistol. Something that can only be seen when it's out of the holster, & is quite noticable. Since it wasn't out of the holster, he can't describe it, so they'll know he's lying.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticredneck
    LEOs, retired LEOs, Commonwealth Attorneys and Assistant Commonwealth attorneys among other privileged classes are exempt from the not drinking part.
    THIS is wrong. That law can be challenged under the equal protection clause.

    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm
    But my personal views are that it looks kinda of silly.
    So LEOs look silly, huh?
    If you don't like it, don't do it.
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  7. #66
    Member Array MKEgal's Avatar
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    For all the people worrying about OCers being BGs... pass along this FBI study.
    "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers"
    IIRC, in Ch. 4 they say that criminals don't carry openly and practically never use holsters.
    So people having a visible pistol in a holster are the good guys.
    "The female of the species is more deadly than the male." R. Kipling

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  8. #67
    Ex Member Array William Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by normAK View Post
    What makes you think those of us from up North don't take our guns and gun rights seriously? You don't get much further north than Alaska and we have more gun ownership per capita and less restrictive gun laws than any southern state.

    That attitude of yours is why we tend to make fun of southerners up here.
    To be fair, I have family in the South, who constantly bust my chops for being a "Yank"; they don't consider Alaskans "Yanks". They do, however, think you're crazy for living on the North Pole.
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  9. #68
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Well ... we don't all live in cities who lost track of the right to own and carry a gun, long ago. In my cases, Open carry is much more logical and easier. Other times, cc has an advantage.

    I would like to make sure we have the option and it's OUR choice.

    I've never had any issue with anyone who open carried ..... period. I was never afraid they were going to shoot me. As said, open carry is going to be by 1) the law - abiding citizen, or 2) the biggest idiotic criminal known.
    TN_Mike likes this.
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  10. #69
    New Member Array Redcrow's Avatar
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    I'm a security guard and only have one problem with open carry. That one problem is the open carrier with the chip on their shoulder, with a attitude of "I dare you to say something" like they are waiting to blow up and cause a big scene just so they can teach us evil antigun people that they have the right to
    carry. This type does not help and I could actually see how this type would hurt
    the cause. Think about this...if a gun owner that is open carrying does blow up and cause a big scene the store is now more likely to post a "no weapons" sign
    just for spite and to "keep those crazy gun nuts from coming around here". I have met quite a few open carriers that are level headed and can articulate the issue. I have no problem with open carry, maybe its just me but I'm encountering this "chip on the shoulder" type more and more often.

    Frankly I'd be more concerned with an open carrier, or concealed for that matter, coming to help such as if the store is getting robbed. If a LEO or Security guard is involved in a shootout with an armed robber and all of a sudden shots are being fired from another direction you have to admit that there is going to be a chance that the LEO or Security turns and starts shooting in your direction. In a situation like this there is just no way to know that you are not another armed robber trying to save his buddy. When you add in the fear, confusion of the situation, and the adrenaline rush it becomes more likely.
    I would much rather see you guys and gals helping to get the innocent bystanders out of the way.

    Lastly, anyone that doesn't think OC is a good idea cause it shows your hand needs to take a look at what people carry on their belts. LEOs, Security, and those of us that are around firearms get ingrained to notice a gun. But the truth is that people are so self centered now-a-days that no one notices. Its kinda the same as the concealed carry vests, when one of us gun enthusiasts notices someone wearing one of those vests we instantly assume he is packing. When someone that is a non-enthusiast just looks at the vest and thinks "wow that is tacky" but doesn't assume he is carrying a gun. A non-enthusiast sees a bulge on the belt line and thinks cell phone not 1911.

  11. #70
    Member Array Mjodr's Avatar
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    I'm 330 lbs. So CC is difficult and uncomfortable. To top it off, I get sick in heat and have to dress really light anytime I go out (I'm in Florida). Consequently, I rarely go out anymore, and even with my CCW, I rarely CC when I do.

    I'm moving to Montana. While I will be able to add layers, I'm still fat. At least OC is an option there.
    Coming soon to a Montana near you!

  12. #71
    Member Array Mjodr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by normAK View Post
    What makes you think those of us from up North don't take our guns and gun rights seriously? You don't get much further north than Alaska and we have more gun ownership per capita and less restrictive gun laws than any southern state.

    That attitude of yours is why we tend to make fun of southerners up here.
    I'd think Alaska is more considered Northwest. When people talk about the Liberal North, they are talking about much of New England, parts of the mid-Atlantic and Parts of the Midwest. At the very most, parts of Oregon and Washington can be included. (like Portland or Seattle) That's my take anyway. The South does have California, however... ;) and Florida is all mixed-up.

    Besides, wouldn't Southerners, to you, be Canadians? I was raised north of Detroit, so I always jokingly called Canadians "Southern" myself. (I was due north of Windsor)
    NIS350ZTT likes this.
    Coming soon to a Montana near you!

  13. #72
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    Great points Longrider. LAW ABIDING CITIZENS HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE. I really, really like that statement.

    Firstly, I don't OC.
    That said, I've stated my opinions about this in a few recent threads.

    -It doesn't matter if CC offers a perceived "tactical advantage". The same could be said for OC.
    -It doesn't matter if people "feel good" about not knowing you have a gun, or "feel bad" if they knew you did/can see it. Could you immagine the laws that would be stripped from US citizens if they had to abide by a "feel good" policy?
    -It doesn't matter if LEO "disagrees" with it because of the above statement. If that is the case, LEO should start better educating the public - because no laws are being broken (in states that allow).
    Thanks and well said. Really what people need to figure out is that life and the right to defend that life is a God given not one granted to us by the government. The government should have no say whatsoever on whether or not we opt to exercise that right nor how we opt to do it. We in fact have a document that is the foundation of this nation that says exactly that. That we as human beings have inalienable GOD given rights that the government has no business sticking its stinking nose into.

    If the sight of a gun makes folks wet their panties they need to GROW UP get therapy.

    To your last statement. Sadly we do have a multitude of laws infringing on our rights because it makes some folks "feel good"

    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    And guys, Crazybasitid was banned for his idiocy, you can stop replying to his posts.
    Thanks I just deleted a post as I had missed this and replied. It would be nice to have someplace where someone is not always advocating infringing upon my rights in one way or another.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  14. #73
    Member Array Glockwatcher's Avatar
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    I’m all for the right to open carry.

    It’s the easiest way to pack a big .44 Magnum in Grizzly country…
    …or a .357 on your farm.
    …or your Colt .45 on your hometown Main Street on your way to get a haircut at Floyd’s Barber Shop…
    …or show off your iron (or plastic) and fine tooled leather (or plastic) when you have business at the county seat.

    But in the big cities, better stay in the safer neighborhoods if you open carry, because the hardware you think is protecting you also makes you a lucrative target (and you’re on THEIR turf).

    In a couple of decades of law enforcement in major cities I was grateful I never had to work in uniform. Those who do are burdened with body armor in the summer heat, which is far more burdensome than concealed carry. They also have partners, backup, retention holsters, assault rifles, shotguns, communications, training, and, with experience, a higher level of situational awareness than any gun hobbyist is likely to ever acquire.

    But, for those of you who still think urban open carry is a good idea, here’s the perfect fashion item:


    (My apologies to the RAF)

  15. #74
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Whether I personally favor it or not is irrelevant, it should be the law of the land, along with CC.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  16. #75
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Whether I personally favor it or not is irrelevant, it should be the law of the land, along with CC.
    Says it all. Best comment on the entire thread.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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