The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude
This is a discussion on The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you carry in Madison and are concerned about unfair treatment by MPD you should print this out and have it with you. Madison Police ...
January 11th, 2012 05:49 PM
If you carry in Madison and are concerned about unfair treatment by MPD you should print this out and have it with you. Madison Police Fall Update. If your rights are violated, sue in Federal Court, site the Chief's and DA's public comments on the subject in your filings.
New Hampshire CCL
January 11th, 2012 10:37 PM
Sadly, no. I didn't expect anything different from this guy.
I've said it before and I will continue to say it. If you knowingly go to the OPEN CARRY section of the site and post anti-open carry messages, you are simply outing yourself as a troll. Period.
January 12th, 2012 04:16 PM
Unless the bad guys are shooting at me or threatening me or my loved ones. I'm not going to play hero civilian. My gun is staying holstered if I'm far enough away. If I did have to engage the threat, then I'm close enough for the security guard to see that I'm not shooting at him but rather the BG's..
Originally Posted by Redcrow
This form of logic that you have posted is a common excuse to ban guns on campus.
"Oh well if mass shootings happen and the cops show up to the scene they won't see who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. Then they will shoot at the innocent Guy with the gun and kill him."
In the campus situation the fight will be over faster than police to respond. They would arrive on scene and either see a bad guy down, and the CPL holder with his/her gun back holstered hands up waiting for LEO's,
The CPL holder is down, the active shooter is still shooting and the LEO's still have to engage them.
January 12th, 2012 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by CowboyColby
Originally Posted by loneviking
This is what happen in my city... guess what my family did not vote for certain council members the next election day....
These two posts are possibly the two best in this discussion so far. I often bring up the point Cowboy is making. CCer's don't realize that OCer's have been expanding many rights CCer's and OCer's never had before.
January 12th, 2012 04:47 PM
+1. From Gun Facts V5.1:
Originally Posted by Spec
"Fact: Despite prompt law enforcement responses, most armed and violent attacks at
schools were stopped by means other than law enforcement intervention.225 Often these
interventions were by administrators, teachers, or other students who were licensed to
carry firearms." 225 Threat Assessment In Schools, U.S. Secret Service and U.S. Department of Education, 2002
Hence, the "Police might shoot the good guy" is a bogus argument IMO.
January 13th, 2012 05:35 PM
Am I wrong to expect a LEO to not convey any kind of attitude at all on the subject while on the job? I am fine with the officers not approving open carry. I have a huge problem though if they allow their personal attitude regarding OC to cloud their judgment when enforcing the law.
The Logic of 'Open Carry' and LEO's Attitude
Should a LEO stop me because he does not personally like what I am doing? Or, should he enforce the laws as written.
January 13th, 2012 06:48 PM
Sorry, but that is a terrible attitude, and completely false. We may all agree on this forum that "they" should not have a say in the matter (our 2A rights), but the simple, plain, and honest fact is that they do, and you (we) are kidding ourselves if we don't realize it. See, they have a vote, so they have a say, like it or not. And as a matter of fact, we are one election away from some Supreme Court justice appointments, and I'm afraid you might just see how much say "they" have depending on how that goes. Maybe instead of "I don't care" we should "Care and explain". Just a thought.
In a large part I do not care how they "feel". Their unfounded fears are their problem. A sign of emotional immaturity. What I would like to see is for them to get used to it, understand that they have no say in the matter.
Or maybe, just maybe, they are on a forum, where everyone posts their opinions, and have a different opinion from you on OC. Sir, believe me or not, but I assure you I am no troll, yet in most situations, am not a fan of OC, but I agree completely with this:
If you knowingly go to the OPEN CARRY section of the site and post anti-open carry messages, you are simply outing yourself as a troll. Period.
as well as glockman10mm thoughts on this matter overall.
Me. I don't care how anyone wants to carry. I have my opinions, but that's about it. Everybody has to hoe their own row of taters.
Even though my humble opinion may be different on the merits of OC, I also agree completely with that, and you are correct LongRider, the best post in the thread.
Whether I personally favor it or not is irrelevant, it should be the law of the land, along with CC.
My heroes are Veterans and My Father (who was a veteran).
I believe prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance should have REMAINED in schools, and the Ten Commandments should have REMAINED in schools, courthouses, and everywhere else it was before the ACLU got involved.
January 13th, 2012 07:13 PM
Logic of OC and LEO's attitude in Arizona is - LEO's I've talked with assume everyone in Arizona is armed. During traffic stops I've experienced in Arizona, if the LEO fails to ask if I'm carrying a handgun, I'll simply produce my AZCCW permit and tell 'em where the gun is.
LEO reply usually is: "Well, don't reach for it." or "Don't show me yours and I wont show you mine". or "Thanks, uh, what kind is it".
We do have some decent LEO's down here.
January 13th, 2012 11:09 PM
Devon, I have no problem with you not being a fan of OC. I don't even have a problem with you or someone coming on the OC section and posting thoughtful and respectful posts that are not in favor of OC. I DO have a problem with someone coming on the OC section and posting crap that is only meant to stir up arguments. Coming on here and simply saying that OC shouldn't be allowed is idiotic and it isn't just expressing a different opinion, it's trying to start trouble and being a troll.
Originally Posted by Devone6
February 3rd, 2012 09:56 PM
Wow that police pamphlet from Wisconsin is pretty unbelievable. Despite the law passed by the legislature and signed by the Governor the police put in print that they basically intend to treat people legally carrying guns as criminals and think up excuses to harass them.
February 4th, 2012 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by Crazybastid8
Open carry should not exist because you don't believe in it? Wow! What else do you not believe in?
February 4th, 2012 11:20 AM
I support my fellow gun toters' right to open carry where legal. But, I believe that the more it occurs the more chance there is that businesses will begin banning guns on their premises.
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We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. -
February 5th, 2012 02:26 AM
When I was young (pre 1968 Gun Control Law) , people carried open all of the time, and nothing was ever thought about it.
It's only since then, that things have gotten where they are today. A shame, real shame. Back then, if business "posted" and didn't allow anyone with guns.... they would have had to close their doors in the first month.
With the economy the way it is at this point, businesses aren't going to turn away any customers they don't have to.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
February 5th, 2012 06:38 AM
We had a young man here in west Michigan excercise his right to open carry. It was during a parade in New Era for one of the summer holidays. Anyway the police told him to put the gun in his car and he refused so he was detained for the duration of the parade. After the parade the officers told him after checking into it he was legal and could go. Now if I get busted by an officer I'm supposed to know the law why didn't they, or was it a cleaver way to hold him out of the public eye until the crowd was gone.
Anyway thier is a group her in Michigan that promotes open carry. And a couple of days later they rode into town on thier bikes with guns on thier side and gave the police chief a copy of the Michigan law about open carry so he wouldn't make the same mistake.
February 5th, 2012 09:31 AM
The police are well aware of the law its just a form of harassment. I can understand their perspective. They have guns and they don't want citizens to have them as they perceive that as dangerous. Now that assumption is untrue but it appears to be the assumption that many of them tend to operate under. If you go to YouTube and type in open carry harassment or open carry you can find many people videoing such interactions with the police. Even when the police know that the people have the right to be armed and open carry and admit to knowing the law they still come to "investigate" and demand to see IDs and question the people about their activities. There is one from Maine where the police harass a person for around ten minutes and the person keeps asking if he is free to leave and the police keep demanding his ID and tell him no. Well after a while they finally just stand there and quit talking to the guy altogether and refuse to answer whether or not he is free to leave and he finally says that he will take their silence as permission to leave and does so.
Originally Posted by Michiganbob
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