Advantage to open carry? - Page 2

Advantage to open carry?

This is a discussion on Advantage to open carry? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by m287452 I think open carry, no matter what you and I think, makes non-gun people nervous and the anti's more militant. It ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by m287452 View Post
    I think open carry, no matter what you and I think, makes non-gun people nervous and the anti's more militant. It brings all the 2nd amendment issues (valid or not) into public view. It makes non-gun people have to pick sides to an issue to which they may not have given much thought. And let's be honest, non-gun people are generally ignorant about firearms, and most of them will pick the anti side because guns make them nervous, regardless of their political views.

    One of the reasons Texas is one of the toughest states to carry (concealed or open) is because many businesses don't allow weapons on premises. And the reason this happened is in large because a lot of well-intentioned people carrying in the open over time has led to people being forced to pick sides.

    In my opinion, I carry for personal protection and I feel no need to advertise it to soccer moms and the cashiers at Wall Mart who are likely to complain and push for anti-gun laws.
    Not sure where your getting this information about people OC'ing in Texas. I've had soent time in Texas since the early 70's and have neer seen anyone open carry a gun. In fact to my knowledge, OC'ing has been illegal since well before then.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array BRTCP88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Hill View Post
    You'd be wrong. In the past, many towns had laws against concealing guns. If you were "heeled", you had better be sure everyone knew it. People who had a hidden gun in their sleeves were generally seen as scoundrels and brigands, and at best, were not to be trusted. This was true in most places in the mid-west and western territories and states that didn't have bans on carrying guns in towns. Concealed carry, at least back then, was definitely more common among the criminal-minded.

    Saturday Night Specials were designed to cheap, and were made from second rate materials, in essence being a disposable weapon. While they weren't designed for criminals specifically, they were most often used by that element. But what do SNS guns have to do with open carry? Not a whole hell of a lot, aside from the fact that most are small, and easy to conceal. I myself don't make it a habit of open carrying my Raven .25 auto.
    When were those laws written? I was saying the practice of carrying concealed weapons started long before guns and that not only criminals did it. I also know that in at least part of the 1800's and early 1900's it was common for women and gentlemen to carry concealed derringers. I was saying that people claim that no one but criminals used SNP's because they were cheap and easily concealable, but what they were originally designed for is poor people who couldn't afford expensive guns for protection.

    This thread has gotten way off topic. Sorry for opening this can of worms.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Florida did not pass OC, but they did successfully revise CC law such that accidental display of a firearm is no longer a misdemeanor. This was an important clarification. As the law now stands (or at least, will stand after signing, which is now a given), a gun owner who is carrying concealed would have to demonstrably threaten with the firearm in order to run afoul of statute.

    As I heard testimony live on the radio, one of the bill's sponsors said that an owner carrying concealed might accidentally show the firearm while reaching for a wallet in a check-out line. This is no longer considered "display" as far as the law is concerned. It can no longer generate a "man with a gun" problem.

    If a clerk is arguing with a patron, and that person then sweeps their garment back to reveal a handgun - an active of willful display as a threat - that is still a 3-year mandatory stint among our fine men and women of the Florida Correctional System. But if you're bending over to pick something up and you reveal your holstered weapon, no problem.

    This strikes me as being very good law and should be emulated elsewhere as needed for clarification. Regarding OC in general, I think that it's fine in places like rural Wyoming, Montana, ranch country like that. Some guy has to drive 50 miles to the nearest diner, a sidearm on the belt is normal, natural, and part of the social landscape.

    In a dense urban environment where people worry about psychos, wackos, Virgina Tech shooters, Gabrielle Gifford shooters, nut jobs, punks, muggers, convenience store robbers, strongarm criminals, gangs, MS13, Los Zetas, and so on, people probably don't want to have to deal with fat Joe Mall Ninja with his Glock in a Serpa holster on his wannabe "utility belt" along with his silly crenelated bezel Fenix CREE tactical flashlight. Is this guy legal? Is he preparing to slaughter everybody in sight at JC Penny? So you have to watch him.

    Now, Old Jimmy Bob with the Ruger strapped on his hip at Flo's Diner in Utah isn't a problem because everybody knows him, and he's a rancher, and he carries a firearm as a standard tool he needs as part of his daily life. Fat Joe Mall Ninja is welcome to carry concealed, but nobody needs a Second Amendment display and "education" from him. So I see all this as being very location-specific. Support the NRA if you want to ensure your rights.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Hill View Post
    N, I don't agree. I wouldn't carry an AR15 down the street, because it's freaking awkward to do it. It's even more of a pain attempting to sit down at a diner with one. But if someone wants to do it, so what? It's not hurting me.
    It would hurt if someone did do that, it makes the news, and the government gets involved. You might see the right you love, just up and go away. I personally do not OC, even tho I live in a OC state. I just do not see any benefit to it. That being said, i do agree that we should be able to do it. However, MIs opencarry group looks like a bunch of rednecks. I think things need to be re-thought out so that a better image can be put forward. We are dealing with perception.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    ...... I personally do not OC, even tho I live in a OC state. I just do not see any benefit to it.......
    It would be interesting to see if crime statistics are changed for the better or worse over time with MI's open carry.

    I carry for defense, not to publish or make a statement. That's what rallies are for. The less of my business that anybody knows, the better.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    It would hurt if someone did do that, it makes the news, and the government gets involved. You might see the right you love, just up and go away. I personally do not OC, even tho I live in a OC state. I just do not see any benefit to it. That being said, i do agree that we should be able to do it. However, MIs opencarry group looks like a bunch of rednecks. I think things need to be re-thought out so that a better image can be put forward. We are dealing with perception.
    Mind defining the term "redneck"? A lot of people would consider me a redneck, but that doesn't mean I'm not a responsible citizen capable of safely carrying a firearm. I OC all the time. In fact, the only time I really CC is when I'm going out of town or into a grocery store or something. Riding around town and making quick stops at the hardware store or the LGS, I don't sweat it and just OC. It's more comfortable for me, since most of the time I'm just wearing a t-shirt.

    It all boils down to personal preference. You don't want to OC, that's fine, but please don't challenge my right to do as I please. I'm not hurting anyone, so who cares?
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    Mind defining the term "redneck"? A lot of people would consider me a redneck, but that doesn't mean I'm not a responsible citizen capable of safely carrying a firearm. I OC all the time. In fact, the only time I really CC is when I'm going out of town or into a grocery store or something. Riding around town and making quick stops at the hardware store or the LGS, I don't sweat it and just OC. It's more comfortable for me, since most of the time I'm just wearing a t-shirt.

    It all boils down to personal preference. You don't want to OC, that's fine, but please don't challenge my right to do as I please. I'm not hurting anyone, so who cares?
    Im not challenging your right. Not what so ever. The definition of redneck is= Redneck is a historically derogatory slang term used in reference to poor white farmers in the Southern United States. It is similar in meaning to cracker (especially regarding Georgia and Florida), hillbilly (especially regarding Appalachia and the Ozarks), and white trash.

    So when you see someone like that speaking on behalf of all gun owners, you can see how the public might think. So when you say your not hurting anyone, by definition your not, but you may be hurting the cause for legal carry.
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  8. #23
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    If you wouldn't DARE use a racial epithet for certain low class criminals of certain ethnicities, why is it considered "acceptable" in polite society to call law abiding people "rednecks", and "white trash"?

    Is this that new civility I hear so much about?

    Not to derail the thread, I am just tired of the "friendly Fire" about this issue.

    I remember years of yammering about CC from the antis that "if you want to do it, open carry."

    It is STILL legal to open carry in many places.

    A legitimate case for whether or not it is tactically prudent is another issue.

    If you want to discuss that, then do so, if you want to call decent people derogatory names, go pound sand!

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    If you wouldn't DARE use a racial epithet for certain low class criminals of certain ethnicities, why is it considered "acceptable" in polite society to call law abiding people "rednecks", and "white trash"?

    Is this that new civility I hear so much about?

    Not to derail the thread, I am just tired of the "friendly Fire" about this issue.

    I remember years of yammering about CC from the antis that "if you want to do it, open carry."

    It is STILL legal to open carry in many places.

    A legitimate case for whether or not it is tactically prudent is another issue.

    If you want to discuss that, then do so, if you want to call decent people derogatory names, go pound sand!
    Spidey2011 asked for the definition. Nobody is calling anyone names. Perception is a big deal when your out in public with a gun on your hip. That is my only point. Like it or leave it.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  10. #25
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    Actually you just DID say a set of people look like "rednecks".

    Would you like to call some urban yoots a bunch of ..... anything?

    Bet you wouldn't.

    Sorry if it offends you but a huge portion of serious gun rights activists don't wear suits, didn't go to university in the Northeast, and carry their guns proudly, not hide them like a dirty little secret.

    We have to STOP acting like a kicked dog, when it comes to defending our rights, and YES, that means pushing people's comfort zone.
    OC picnics, and rallys and individuals acting lawfully is not going to arouse the public to support more repressive laws.
    Gun control was always funded and powered by a very few with anti-liberty agendas. Gun control has been on a steady slide for 16 years. Even non gun owning people realize that THEY may not want a gun today, but they might need a gun next month.

    Every snarky editorial about OC picnics reminds people that it is a lawful activity that THEY can do.

    Some people think that how and whether we carry should not be used as a political statement.

    EVERYTHING, now, is a political statement!
    Axeanda45 and tcox4freedom like this.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Im not challenging your right. Not what so ever. The definition of redneck is= Redneck is a historically derogatory slang term used in reference to poor white farmers in the Southern United States. It is similar in meaning to cracker (especially regarding Georgia and Florida), hillbilly (especially regarding Appalachia and the Ozarks), and white trash.

    So when you see someone like that speaking on behalf of all gun owners, you can see how the public might think. So when you say your not hurting anyone, by definition your not, but you may be hurting the cause for legal carry.
    I'm sorry, but I have to completely disagree with that. Some people would be uncomfortable in the presence of an African American that was open carrying. Would you tell him he's hurting the cause? I bet you wouldn't. Is it any different for a very large, burly man with a biker vest, bandanna, and scruffy beard? I bet you wouldn't tell him he's hurting the cause either, would you? So why is it different for someone that might be "perceived" as a redneck, even if that view is stereotypical and uneducated?

    BTW, I wanted YOUR perception of what a redneck is, since your opinion obviously couldn't match that definition, since MI isn't in the south. When you think redneck, does a buck toothed guy wearing overalls and no shirt, while carrying a shotgun pop into your head? I'm often called a redneck by less educated "city folk" because of my lifestyle. I work hard to run a ranch every day, and a few times a week I'll walk back into the pasture and (in a safe manner) shoot whatever I darn well please. I'm not afraid to get dirty or work hard, and you'll very rarely see me without a gun, whether it be the .30-30 in my truck, or the 9mm on my hip. That doesn't mean that I'm some uneducated hick. I even have some college under my belt, and I just turned 18 last month. That's a lot more than most people can say. I've never liked the term redneck, I prefer country boy. :P As far as perception goes, it's not like I'm dressed like crap while carrying, OC or CC. If people are uncomfortable around a gun, they will be, regardless of who's carrying it. I agree that people should look decent when carrying, regardless of the method, but I DON'T believe someone shouldn't carry because they might upset someone.

    The way I see it, if someone has the right to carry, they shouldn't care about what other people think about it. As long as they can do it responsibly, there's no problem. If they want to carry an AR-15 or whatever else they might have, they can have all the fun they want. A right not exercised is a right lost, IMHO.

    Oh, and about when I said "Don't challenge my rights." It wasn't directed solely at you. It was directed at anyone that may even slightly think I shouldn't OC. I don't question why people CC, so I sure as heck don't want them questioning why I OC.

  12. #27
    Ex Member Array William Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    It would hurt if someone did do that, it makes the news, and the government gets involved. You might see the right you love, just up and go away. I personally do not OC, even tho I live in a OC state. I just do not see any benefit to it. That being said, i do agree that we should be able to do it. However, MIs opencarry group looks like a bunch of rednecks. I think things need to be re-thought out so that a better image can be put forward. We are dealing with perception.

    Right...another "open carry threatens our rights" line. Gimme a break. And it was an especially nice touch to throw out the "redneck" card.
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  13. #28
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    I've been called a "red neck" more than once in my life. So let's see what that equates to:

    1. Almost 60
    2. Raised a family
    3. Retired from the military after serving my country for 24 years (in the top 3% of enlisted ranks)
    4. Work full time
    5. I do like my C&W music

    All things considered I guess being a red neck isn't all that bad.

    I do OC most of the time. I started when Virginia still required OC in restaurants that served alcohol. Just found it more convenient to leave it that way. I also carry to and from work. It's a hassle to tuck, and un-tuck when I get to a job site, so I leave it open. Of course I'm in an OC friendly state, and have never been hassled about it.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by m287452 View Post

    One of the reasons Texas is one of the toughest states to carry (concealed or open) is because many businesses don't allow weapons on premises. And the reason this happened is in large because a lot of well-intentioned people carrying in the open over time has led to people being forced to pick sides.

    In my opinion, I carry for personal protection and I feel no need to advertise it to soccer moms and the cashiers at Wall Mart who are likely to complain and push for anti-gun laws.
    To the best of my knowledge {A}Texas is not and has not been (since the wild west days) an open carry state, printing is illegal; {B}opinions are like a smelly body part; everyone has their own.

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    Actually you just DID say a set of people look like "rednecks".

    Would you like to call some urban yoots a bunch of ..... anything?

    Bet you wouldn't.

    Sorry if it offends you but a huge portion of serious gun rights activists don't wear suits, didn't go to university in the Northeast, and carry their guns proudly, not hide them like a dirty little secret.

    We have to STOP acting like a kicked dog, when it comes to defending our rights, and YES, that means pushing people's comfort zone.
    OC picnics, and rallys and individuals acting lawfully is not going to arouse the public to support more repressive laws.
    Gun control was always funded and powered by a very few with anti-liberty agendas. Gun control has been on a steady slide for 16 years. Even non gun owning people realize that THEY may not want a gun today, but they might need a gun next month.

    Every snarky editorial about OC picnics reminds people that it is a lawful activity that THEY can do.

    Some people think that how and whether we carry should not be used as a political statement.

    EVERYTHING, now, is a political statement!
    It takes more than OC to offend me. I do not wear a suit, I did go to college, and carry my gun proudly. I did use the term Rednecks, in regards to our states open carry group, and yes I think they hurt the cause. The OP asked if there was an advantage to OC. I have to reply no. JMO....You can see the difference between the south and the north here, big time. I live in a metro area thats about 400,000 people. Perception is everything. Were others live might be much different.

    Spidey asked if I saw an african american OCing would that hurt the cause? NO. If I saw a burly man with a biker vest, bandanna and scruffy beard. YES. This is the location that I live in. You just cant go out and say I do not care what others think, that gets us no were. The right should be used, but here we need to put a better foot forward. I think its more of a cultural difference more than anything.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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