Advantage to open carry? - Page 3

Advantage to open carry?

This is a discussion on Advantage to open carry? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If it were my only option I would OC. Since I can CC with or without a permit in AZ, I choose to CC simply ...

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  1. #31
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    If it were my only option I would OC. Since I can CC with or without a permit in AZ, I choose to CC simply because I don't want my gun to become part of my identity.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    It takes more than OC to offend me. I do not wear a suit, I did go to college, and carry my gun proudly. I did use the term Rednecks, in regards to our states open carry group, and yes I think they hurt the cause. The OP asked if there was an advantage to OC. I have to reply no. JMO....You can see the difference between the south and the north here, big time. I live in a metro area thats about 400,000 people. Perception is everything. Were others live might be much different.

    Spidey asked if I saw an african american OCing would that hurt the cause? NO. If I saw a burly man with a biker vest, bandanna and scruffy beard. YES. This is the location that I live in. You just cant go out and say I do not care what others think, that gets us no were. The right should be used, but here we need to put a better foot forward. I think its more of a cultural difference more than anything.
    Some people would be uncomfortable in the presence of either one while they're carrying a gun. I'm sure there are people that would be uncomfortable around YOU while you're carrying a gun. The perceptions of uneducated people are worthless to me. My neighbors PERCEIVE me shooting on my own property as a threat, just as some would perceive a "redneck" with a gun as a threat. Do I still shoot on my own property? You bet I do. Do I continue to carry regardless of what people think? Yup. Sure do. Another person's perceptions don't hurt me, just like my carrying doesn't hurt anyone else.

    I seem to recall a thread that had a very good understanding of the anti-gun mind. I'm not even going to bother trying to "please" them by not openly carrying. If someone has any questions about why I carry, they're more than welcome to ask me about anything they please. If they seem decent, I may even invite them out to the range to learn more. I've never had anyone do that, though. Probably because I live in MT and people are expected to have guns.

    I'll finish this off by saying that everyone should look presentable while carrying. Whether a "redneck" or a suit guy, it doesn't matter. I see no reason to tell some people that they are "hurting the cause," because they may not look like what you want citizens to believe gun owners look like. My perception is that someone that says that is just as anti-gun as anyone that says we shouldn't be able to carry at all. We ALL have a right to carry, and some of us may execute it a little differently, but that doesn't matter. If someone wants to OC, they should be able to, without any interference, including someone saying they "hurt the cause." It's not a cultural difference. It's another form of an anti-OC argument. This is America, and we do as we please.

  3. #33
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    Its just easier to oc..I used to only cc up to a few years ago but now almost always oc.Do not have to worry about an inside the waistband holster pinching my side or sweating all over my firearm in the summer.

  4. #34
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    A lot depends on where you live as to what the reaction is.

    I went to the prescription counter at my local Walgreens OCing the day after a druggie tried to get narcotics with a knife; the Pharmacist looked at my sidearm and said "I wish you had been here yesterday".

    No old ladies fainting, no kids running in fear; just a guy who gets it.

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    Some people would be uncomfortable in the presence of either one while they're carrying a gun. I'm sure there are people that would be uncomfortable around YOU while you're carrying a gun. The perceptions of uneducated people are worthless to me. My neighbors PERCEIVE me shooting on my own property as a threat, just as some would perceive a "redneck" with a gun as a threat. Do I still shoot on my own property? You bet I do. Do I continue to carry regardless of what people think? Yup. Sure do. Another person's perceptions don't hurt me, just like my carrying doesn't hurt anyone else.

    I seem to recall a thread that had a very good understanding of the anti-gun mind. I'm not even going to bother trying to "please" them by not openly carrying. If someone has any questions about why I carry, they're more than welcome to ask me about anything they please. If they seem decent, I may even invite them out to the range to learn more. I've never had anyone do that, though. Probably because I live in MT and people are expected to have guns.

    I'll finish this off by saying that everyone should look presentable while carrying. Whether a "redneck" or a suit guy, it doesn't matter. I see no reason to tell some people that they are "hurting the cause," because they may not look like what you want citizens to believe gun owners look like. My perception is that someone that says that is just as anti-gun as anyone that says we shouldn't be able to carry at all. We ALL have a right to carry, and some of us may execute it a little differently, but that doesn't matter. If someone wants to OC, they should be able to, without any interference, including someone saying they "hurt the cause." It's not a cultural difference. It's another form of an anti-OC argument. This is America, and we do as we please.
    You keep saying uneducated Im not sure if your talking gun education or formal education. I realize you are young, just turning 18 and all, but you need to stop puffing out your chest you will only piss folks off. If you must take an issue to the mat thats fine, but sometimes you need to use kit gloves to make a point. I fully understand your point and agree with you. This is taken from glockman10mm in another thread "For me, OCing is not a good idea, especially in a crowd. I liken it to showing your hand at a poker game before the betting begins. Yeah, it's a right and I support it, and so is freedom of speech, but there are somethings we probably should not say in public either" these are good words of wisdom.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  6. #36
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    You keep saying uneducated Im not sure if your talking gun education or formal education. I realize you are young, just turning 18 and all, but you need to stop puffing out your chest you will only piss folks off. If you must take an issue to the mat thats fine, but sometimes you need to use kit gloves to make a point. I fully understand your point and agree with you. This is taken from glockman10mm in another thread "For me, OCing is not a good idea, especially in a crowd. I liken it to showing your hand at a poker game before the betting begins. Yeah, it's a right and I support it, and so is freedom of speech, but there are somethings we probably should not say in public either" these are good words of wisdom.
    I am referring to education about firearms. I'm not "puffing out my chest." Gun rights happen to be something I am very passionate about. My family has sponsored the local FNRA Banquet every year for the past five years. I've taken and passed THREE courses to become a certified 4H Shooting Sports instructor in three separate disciplines. That's just to name a few ways that I help spread the wealth of positive information about firearms. I may be young, but that doesn't mean I don't have any experience with what I'm talking about.

    I don't believe that I should have to conform to the beliefs of someone that doesn't want me to have a right guaranteed to me by the Constitution. If I happen to piss off some anti-gun jerk, so be it. I don't try to force them to own guns, so they shouldn't try to force me not too. If they can't acknowledge my right to bear arms, I don't care to acknowledge them. You might think that's a bit of a harsh view, but you know as well as I do that we will rarely be able to sway an anti-gun person. Why should I even try? Can't I just go on about my business and ignore them?

    Basically what I get out of that quote is that it's ok to exercise a right, as long as we do it in a way that won't offend anyone. That's a load of bull, IMO. That argument goes right along with the people that support the right to own hunting rifles, but don't feel that the average citizen should be able to own an AR-15. A right is a right, and there shouldn't be any stipulations to go along with it.
    Axeanda45 and Gunner3126 like this.

  7. #37
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    I can only answer this question regarding the advantage of open carry from the perspective of being a resident of Colorado. I have carried both concealed and open for approx 35 years. After recent thought regarding this issue I feel only open carry is an expression of my second amendment rights. In Colorado you have to pay for a ccw. Anytime you have to pay it ceases to be a right. It is a privilege. I can only think of 3 (soon to be 4) states that can claim they are exercising their 2nd amendment right to carrying a firearm concealed, those being Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and as of July 1, Wyoming. All others are using a privilege granted by their locality.

    Now I agree that there can be detrimental results caused by open carry. These are due mostly to how people present themselves to those around them. People who present themselves with a chip on their shoulder, dress in a manner that is out of character than those in the area (tried to put that statement is a diplomatic manner) or have personal hygiene issues do not help the public image of gun owners. Those that do open carry need to behave and carry themselves at a level equal to or better than what is accepted as the norm for the area they live and carry on their business.

    Basically, there are my thoughts regarding the issue of open and concealed carry. I'll go back into hiding now

  8. #38
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    i hope one day PA has Constitutional Carry.

  9. #39
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    I carry strictly for self defense. If I saw a defensive advantage to revealing that I have a weapon beforehand, then I would carry openly. I'm also concerned that if caught in a self defense situation while open carrying, an overzealous district attorney (think Duke University lacrosse team debacle) could declare that I "went out looking for trouble" by openly displaying a weapon.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GvdM View Post
    I can only answer this question regarding the advantage of open carry from the perspective of being a resident of Colorado. I have carried both concealed and open for approx 35 years. After recent thought regarding this issue I feel only open carry is an expression of my second amendment rights. In Colorado you have to pay for a ccw. Anytime you have to pay it ceases to be a right. It is a privilege. I can only think of 3 (soon to be 4) states that can claim they are exercising their 2nd amendment right to carrying a firearm concealed, those being Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and as of July 1, Wyoming. All others are using a privilege granted by their locality.

    Now I agree that there can be detrimental results caused by open carry. These are due mostly to how people present themselves to those around them. People who present themselves with a chip on their shoulder, dress in a manner that is out of character than those in the area (tried to put that statement is a diplomatic manner) or have personal hygiene issues do not help the public image of gun owners. Those that do open carry need to behave and carry themselves at a level equal to or better than what is accepted as the norm for the area they live and carry on their business.

    Basically, there are my thoughts regarding the issue of open and concealed carry. I'll go back into hiding now
    Add MT to that, though it's not officially done yet. It went to the governor on May 2, so it shouldn't be too much longer.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array BRTCP88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GvdM View Post
    I can only answer this question regarding the advantage of open carry from the perspective of being a resident of Colorado. I have carried both concealed and open for approx 35 years. After recent thought regarding this issue I feel only open carry is an expression of my second amendment rights. In Colorado you have to pay for a ccw. Anytime you have to pay it ceases to be a right. It is a privilege. I can only think of 3 (soon to be 4) states that can claim they are exercising their 2nd amendment right to carrying a firearm concealed, those being Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and as of July 1, Wyoming. All others are using a privilege granted by their locality.

    Now I agree that there can be detrimental results caused by open carry. These are due mostly to how people present themselves to those around them. People who present themselves with a chip on their shoulder, dress in a manner that is out of character than those in the area (tried to put that statement is a diplomatic manner) or have personal hygiene issues do not help the public image of gun owners. Those that do open carry need to behave and carry themselves at a level equal to or better than what is accepted as the norm for the area they live and carry on their business.

    Basically, there are my thoughts regarding the issue of open and concealed carry. I'll go back into hiding now
    I agree, but that wouldn't really apply to me since the law that would have allowed OC still required you to have a CWFL in order to do so.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    I carry strictly for self defense. If I saw a defensive advantage to revealing that I have a weapon beforehand, then I would carry openly. I'm also concerned that if caught in a self defense situation while open carrying, an overzealous district attorney (think Duke University lacrosse team debacle) could declare that I "went out looking for trouble" by openly displaying a weapon.
    from a defensive standpoint there are pros and cons to both cc and oc. Oc you have faster access to your gun. Even with practice drawing oc and cc open will always be faster. cc advantage is no one knows you are armed so bg's are not prepared. Oc in a lot of cases will bring more attention to you where cc will not. Regarding an over-zealous DA they can try to declare anything from instigation to carrying hollow points prove you planned to kill someone or simply carrying proves your paranoid and looking for trouble. Stupid arguments are stupid arguments they just have to be dealt with. We can go on and on. Ultimately it is a personal choice. As I said before, I both oc and cc.
    Last edited by GvdM; May 4th, 2011 at 02:13 PM. Reason: spelling

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    I am referring to education about firearms. I'm not "puffing out my chest." Gun rights happen to be something I am very passionate about. My family has sponsored the local FNRA Banquet every year for the past five years. I've taken and passed THREE courses to become a certified 4H Shooting Sports instructor in three separate disciplines. That's just to name a few ways that I help spread the wealth of positive information about firearms. I may be young, but that doesn't mean I don't have any experience with what I'm talking about.

    I don't believe that I should have to conform to the beliefs of someone that doesn't want me to have a right guaranteed to me by the Constitution. If I happen to piss off some anti-gun jerk, so be it. I don't try to force them to own guns, so they shouldn't try to force me not too. If they can't acknowledge my right to bear arms, I don't care to acknowledge them. You might think that's a bit of a harsh view, but you know as well as I do that we will rarely be able to sway an anti-gun person. Why should I even try? Can't I just go on about my business and ignore them?

    Basically what I get out of that quote is that it's ok to exercise a right, as long as we do it in a way that won't offend anyone. That's a load of bull, IMO. That argument goes right along with the people that support the right to own hunting rifles, but don't feel that the average citizen should be able to own an AR-15. A right is a right, and there shouldn't be any stipulations to go along with it.
    I am glad that you are passionate about gun rights. I am too. As are most of the people here. Nobody here wants to take away your right. That is not what I have been saying. If you do not want to acknowledge the antis thats your business, but you might want to wake up and give them a look. They are the ones that want your rights taken away, and they are very vocal about it. You used the term uneducated, formal education teaches you to look at both sides of the issue. If you ignore them, they might jump up a bite you in the ass someday. That is what I meant by you puffing your chest out.

    Do not conform to there beliefs, but take you passion and use it with caution. This is a battle that we are not out of yet. Take both sides and use there info against them. It really does work. They cannot defend there positions. You said that you do not try force your view on them, So they shouldnt try to force there way on you. However, they are trying to force there views on all of us. Thats why it important to put your best foot forward. Do you see my point now?
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I am glad that you are passionate about gun rights. I am too. As are most of the people here. Nobody here wants to take away your right. That is not what I have been saying. If you do not want to acknowledge the antis thats your business, but you might want to wake up and give them a look. They are the ones that want your rights taken away, and they are very vocal about it. You used the term uneducated, formal education teaches you to look at both sides of the issue. If you ignore them, they might jump up a bite you in the ass someday. That is what I meant by you puffing your chest out.

    Do not conform to there beliefs, but take you passion and use it with caution. This is a battle that we are not out of yet. Take both sides and use there info against them. It really does work. They cannot defend there positions. You said that you do not try force your view on them, So they shouldnt try to force there way on you. However, they are trying to force there views on all of us. Thats why it important to put your best foot forward. Do you see my point now?
    I understand exactly what you are saying, but it has very little bearing on anything discussed here. I'm not going to change my ways to make them happy. If they're uncomfortable around my gun, they're welcome to leave. As far as "waking up and giving them a look," I'm very much aware of them and what they are trying to do. I tend to ignore the individuals, since I have no real reason to care about their opinions. If they would like to civilly discuss the issues, I'm more than happy to do so. In fact, I had an incident today where the owner of the LGS erroneously believed that I was not legally able to possess the pistol I was carrying. I informed him of the law and he asked me to show him, so I walked over to his counter and grabbed a "Youth Handgun Safety Act" pamphlet, opened it up, and showed him the exact spot that says it's an offense to possess a handgun under 18. He was very surprised that he didn't know that, and plans to discuss it with the ATF on their next visit.

    As for groups of antis, which are the ones with pull, I will fight against them. Mainly by supporting the organizations that have the power to fight against them. If something comes down to a vote, I'll vote. I think you are taking it a bit too far by worrying about the public's perception of someone you have never met. Maybe worry about yourself, and let other people go about their own business in the way they want. Worry about how YOU look while carrying. Unless someone is acting recklessly, there's no reason for you to interfere. You have no right to suggest what type of person should OC. If you fully support gun rights, you wouldn't have said that. I find it a bit hypocritical, myself.

    My point is that there is no reason that we shouldn't be able to OC. As long as it's legal, anyone that wants to should be able to. I agree that we are a representative of all gun owners, so we must conduct ourselves in a certain manner, but saying that someone should not OC because they look like a redneck is just plain stupid. As long as someone is clean and presentable, there is no reason that they shouldn't be able to do as they please. I don't believe it is your place to decide who may or may not be "hurting the cause." Do you see MY point yet?
    Gunner3126 likes this.

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    I understand exactly what you are saying, but it has very little bearing on anything discussed here. I'm not going to change my ways to make them happy. If they're uncomfortable around my gun, they're welcome to leave. As far as "waking up and giving them a look," I'm very much aware of them and what they are trying to do. I tend to ignore the individuals, since I have no real reason to care about their opinions. If they would like to civilly discuss the issues, I'm more than happy to do so. In fact, I had an incident today where the owner of the LGS erroneously believed that I was not legally able to possess the pistol I was carrying. I informed him of the law and he asked me to show him, so I walked over to his counter and grabbed a "Youth Handgun Safety Act" pamphlet, opened it up, and showed him the exact spot that says it's an offense to possess a handgun under 18. He was very surprised that he didn't know that, and plans to discuss it with the ATF on their next visit.

    As for groups of antis, which are the ones with pull, I will fight against them. Mainly by supporting the organizations that have the power to fight against them. If something comes down to a vote, I'll vote. I think you are taking it a bit too far by worrying about the public's perception of someone you have never met. Maybe worry about yourself, and let other people go about their own business in the way they want. Worry about how YOU look while carrying. Unless someone is acting recklessly, there's no reason for you to interfere. You have no right to suggest what type of person should OC. If you fully support gun rights, you wouldn't have said that. I find it a bit hypocritical, myself.

    My point is that there is no reason that we shouldn't be able to OC. As long as it's legal, anyone that wants to should be able to. I agree that we are a representative of all gun owners, so we must conduct ourselves in a certain manner, but saying that someone should not OC because they look like a redneck is just plain stupid. As long as someone is clean and presentable, there is no reason that they shouldn't be able to do as they please. I don't believe it is your place to decide who may or may not be "hurting the cause." Do you see MY point yet?
    What I am saying has plenty of bearing on what is being discussed here. You just have a differing opinion, thats all. As far as me having a right to suggest what type of people shouldnt be walking around with a gun on there hip, I have all the right to do so, thats whats make this country great. So ill leave you with this. We agree to disagree. My words will not change your mind, and yours will not change mine. It is what it is.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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