The “Do’s” and “Don’ts” of Open Carry Part I

This is a discussion on The “Do’s” and “Don’ts” of Open Carry Part I within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I should add that if the only way that you are able to legally carry is to carry "open" I would rather that you carry ...

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Thread: The “Do’s” and “Don’ts” of Open Carry Part I

  1. #31
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    I should add that if the only way that you are able to legally carry is to carry "open" I would rather that you carry open than not carry at all.

    I also should say that I have absolutely no problem "Constitutionally" with citizens wanting to carry however they feel that it is their individual Constitutional right to carry.
    That does not mean that I believe it's a wise or amazingly smart thing to do.


    But, if you are carrying open for the "coolness factor" or because you just think that it's too much of a "hassle" to "cover up" - or...because you think that it is some sort of a "crime or assault prevention deterrent" then you should probably have a quiet & honest "sit down" with yourself and mull it all over again in your head.
    And....in the meantime razor-hone those fiream retention skills & your condition levels on a constant basis because there really are people out there (in the general human population) that are not intimidated (in the least) by the mere sight of a firearm & if that person is not bad enough to take it from you alone...the task can usually be much more easily accomplished by overwhelming multiples of assailants.
    The bottom line is that it is your "hide & bones" (and not mine) for you to risk as you deem fit.

    Stay Safe.

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  3. #32
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    Am I the only one who thinks this is another commercial for Suarez International?
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks this is another commercial for Suarez International?
    I do!

    I write to teach and to let people know what type of instructor I am. I give away a ton of free information to those that will never train and a ton to those that are trying to figure out who to train with. This is no different from any other instructor that writes on gun forums.


    Yes, I do write books. I have one already published and material enough for two more (I just have to find the time to organize them.)

    For every person that has a problem with that there are two others that walk up to me during my courses, just to shake my hand and thank me for taking the time to explain things to them.
    Last edited by Sweatnbullets; May 7th, 2011 at 02:22 AM.
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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    QKShooter

    Outstanding post that get's right to the heart of the matter.

    I personally know of three events where a man was targeted for his gun and I was only on the streets for thirteen years. I know of hundreds of cases where men were targeted for their guns. They were cops, security gaurds, gun store employees, and gun range users.

    The political activists have there head in the sand and refuse to see the empirical data that is out there. Their ridiculous line of "provide a link" is a joke because as soon as you do they say cops, security gaurds, gun store employees, and gun range users are not "open carry guys."

    The question is not "do open carry guys get targeted for their guns?"

    The question is "do people get targeted for their guns?"

    The answer for that is "absolutely!" Search the internet you will find hundreds of cases.

    You may not find cases of open carry guys being targeted, but their numbers are so low it is like saying "two headed rattlesnakes are not dangerous because there is no documentation of anyone being bite by one."

    If you are a student of self defense.......be very careful who you listen to. The political activists are using horrible science and tossing out all the empirical data that has been established for a very long time.

  6. #35
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    Here in Ohio, we have Concealed Carry and Open Carry. When folks ask me about open carry, I tell them, yes, it is legal if you are sober and can legally own a gun. BUT, be prepared to pick gravel out of your face and a possible stiff neck from a policeman's knee. "Man with a gun" is always treated the same way. LE doesn't know if you are legit or not until they secure your weapon and investigate. Many LE aren't versed on our Open Carry Law either. I much rather CCW than open. Less problems and I don't want the bad guys to know if I have a gun.


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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Gun Supply View Post
    Here in Ohio, we have Concealed Carry and Open Carry. When folks ask me about open carry, I tell them, yes, it is legal if you are sober and can legally own a gun. BUT, be prepared to pick gravel out of your face and a possible stiff neck from a policeman's knee. "Man with a gun" is always treated the same way. LE doesn't know if you are legit or not until they secure your weapon and investigate. Many LE aren't versed on our Open Carry Law either. I much rather CCW than open. Less problems and I don't want the bad guys to know if I have a gun.
    I don't know about Ohio, but here in Michigan, that's grounds for a lawsuit. If the officer's only RAS for throwing you face down is that you're OCing, then he just violated your civil rights.

  8. #37
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    But, if you are carrying open for the "coolness factor" or because you just think that it's too much of a "hassle" to "cover up" - or...because you think that it is some sort of a "crime or assault prevention deterrent" then you should probably have a quiet & honest "sit down" with yourself and mull it all over again in your head.
    Agreed!

    I am not looking for this to turn into a debate.

    I am looking to make sure that my open carry friends are as safe as they can be.

    I do not mean to stereotype, but many open carry advocates believe that "the mere presence" of the gun is all they need.

    It is my opinion that this type of thinking/philosophy is extremely common and very dangerous.

    My point is that it does not matter if you open carry or conceal carry, if you want to make sure that you are taking care of "your paramount mission" you can not rely on never needing to fight.

    When I look at a pure ratio of highly trained concealed carriers compare to highly trained open carriers, it is clear that there is an over riding belief that if you open carry you do not need to be trained. This is from my direct experience and it is something that really concerns me. It is obvious that somewhere down the line "the mere presence" philosophy has taken on a much larger role than I believe that it should.

    I am talking pure ratios here. Concealed carry guys believe that they need quality training at a much higher ratio than open carry guys. IMHO, this thinking is absolutely backwards and potentially very dangerous.

    When Gabe Suarez tells me, "I open carry sometimes and sometimes I do it to get right in the libtards face." I know this is a man that has the training, ability, mindset, and skill sets to pretty much do whatever he wants.

    But it is an entirely different thing when I hear about newbies strapping guns on and holding "events" and they have no training, knowledge, mindset, skills, ability, or street smarts.

    That is the point of these series of articles, to educate, to stir up awareness, to give my open carry friends the very best information that I can so they they can make informed decisions and are not just following a "know nothing" political activist.

    IMHO, the overly opinionated "know nothing" political activist is creating a false sense of security that can get people killed. It is my job, as a friend, to teach my friends to be very careful about listening to somebody that refuses to take high quality training......free of charge. The perpetuation of ignorance that I have personally witnessed has forced me to stand up and tell my friends that "The Emperor has no clothes."

    It is my opinion that an open carry guy should be trained to a standard higher than a concealed carry guy. From my first hand experience on a pure ratio, this is not even close to being the way that it is..........not close by a long shot.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I should add that if the only way that you are able to legally carry is to carry "open" I would rather that you carry open than not carry at all.

    I also should say that I have absolutely no problem "Constitutionally" with citizens wanting to carry however they feel that it is their individual Constitutional right to carry.
    That does not mean that I believe it's a wise or amazingly smart thing to do.


    But, if you are carrying open for the "coolness factor" or because you just think that it's too much of a "hassle" to "cover up" - or...because you think that it is some sort of a "crime or assault prevention deterrent" then you should probably have a quiet & honest "sit down" with yourself and mull it all over again in your head.
    And....in the meantime razor-hone those fiream retention skills & your condition levels on a constant basis because there really are people out there (in the general human population) that are not intimidated (in the least) by the mere sight of a firearm & if that person is not bad enough to take it from you alone...the task can usually be much more easily accomplished by overwhelming multiples of assailants.
    The bottom line is that it is your "hide & bones" (and not mine) for you to risk as you deem fit.

    Stay Safe.
    I tried your quiet sit down but nothing changed, When ever I go to the store for iteams I can fit in one basket that I can hold in my left hand while my other is against my right side while standing in line, with my right side towards the cashier, I OC, if someone wants to try to reach between my arm pressing against my OC side they will find themself in a wrist lock, And I agree that you have to have constant situational awareness but I know from a personal experience that OC prevented something worst happening.. After helping a friend close up his shop and walking to my truck around eight pm, opening my passenger side door to adjust iteams on the seat, my right side of the body is towards my truck. A group of hispanics pull up 6-9 feet away calling me a dumb white cracker and Im "in their hang out spot", start exiting their car and before they could start approaching me I turned my body directly to them with my right hand on my Glock, they shout "you [removed] cracker", get back in their rice burner and speed off. If i was CCing I would have had to draw my gun directly at them and now escalted to a situation of police involvment.
    Last edited by JD; May 11th, 2011 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Addresed via PM.
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  10. #39
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    A group of hispanics pull up 6-9 feet away calling me a dumb white cracker and Im "in their hang out spot", start exiting their car and before they could start approaching me I turned my body directly to them with my right hand on my Glock, they shout "you [removed] cracker", get back in their rice burner and speed off. If i was CCing I would have had to draw my gun directly at them and now escalted to a situation of police involvment.
    Same thing could have been done with a concealed carry. Just clear the garment and acquire a firing grip.
    Last edited by JD; May 11th, 2011 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Edited language in quoted text.
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  11. #40
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    Guardmt, I'm not convinced the situation you described with the Hispanics would have required the presence of a firearm. While I concede I was not there, the name calling is behavior that we must be able to tolerate. If we carry we must have tough skin. Thinking about this makes me think that because you were open carrying, you were left with no other options but to posture in a way that would make sure they saw you were armed, because, if they got too close, you would have been vunerable to a gun grab. The option of verbal judo, and suprise were not on your table. Because you were openly armed, the weapon had to be brought into the equation here.

    Not judging right or wrong on your actions, just making some comparisons based on my own similar experiences. If the weapon is exposed, it will become a factor in the encounter, which , in some situations may seem helpful, but also puts a limitation on tactics that maybe used to a peaceful resolution.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweatnbullets View Post
    Same thing could have been done with a concealed carry. Just clear the garment and acquire a firing grip.
    What if they thought I was bluffing?
    “What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pike

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardmt View Post
    What if they thought I was bluffing?
    What if grasshoppers had machine guns?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    What if grasshoppers had machine guns?
    What if they did?
    “What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pike

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardmt View Post
    What if they did?
    Birds wouldn't mess with them.

    Point being you can "what if" any situation to death.

    What if they thought you were bluffing, what if they thought your openly carried gun was fake, what if they thought you didn't have the guts to pull, what if there was a guy with a rifle in the back of the car and he just drilled you? What if all of them drew on you?

  16. #45
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    I think for my purposes and SD philosophy, I would rather someone think they can man handle me and 1) either find out they were wrong, or 2) reserve the right to introduce a deadly force option as a suprise at my discretion.
    The moment you are in a position where deadly force is used, that's the moment your world and life as you know it will be turned upside down. Give yourself as many outs as you can. In my opinion, an openly carried gun is already introduced in the situation.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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