I know this has been on here before but now it made the paper.....

I know this has been on here before but now it made the paper.....

This is a discussion on I know this has been on here before but now it made the paper..... within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Plus they just Charged the guy with disorderly conduct Man who clashed with cops over legal gun was also armed with audio recorder | Philadelphia ...

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Thread: I know this has been on here before but now it made the paper.....

  1. #1
    Member Array Scudda's Avatar
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    I know this has been on here before but now it made the paper.....



  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Set up my butt. For a supervisor that is supposed to relate laws to subordinates, to not know the details of local laws relating to weapons is inexcusable.

    I would bet there were a number of departmental policy and ethics violations on the part of the officers involved. If you act professional, being setup is much more difficult for the instigator.

    The above does not relive the carrier from not following orders expediently. Neither side is faultless.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Brass63's Avatar
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    I'm not a big fan of those who open carry to provoke trouble with LE.
    Not sure if this guy was or not. He probably was.
    I do think that public servants of what ever stripe, should act professionally.
    That involves knowing your business, and being able to speak and treat citizens respectfully.
    The response of the initial officer missed that mark by mile.
    The tirade of obscenities alone should give him some unpaid time off.
    But then, I'm from a different era.
    RMS, gatech33, Bubbiesdad and 2 others like this.
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Professionalism remains the same, regardless of era.
    gatech33, RMS, msgt/ret and 1 others like this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  5. #5
    Member Array younggun's Avatar
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    Brass63 - I agree with you, the language used toward Fiorino was uncalled for and I'm much younger (22y/o)

    We do have to look at it this way though: We can't assume whether he was or was not provoking the Police by OC.. remember "innocent until proven guilty" ..I mean what reason do we have to assume that this day was any different than the others. He ALWAYS has his fire arm, he is KNOWLEDGEABLE on his local laws, he STUDIED diligently before taking the responsibility to CC... isn't this what we all want from a CCW. S M A R T carriers.

    In my mind he is taking all the necessary precautions if the situation were to arise, and it very well could in Philly, that he needs to use his side arm. He did nothing wrong to provoke the officer. Don't get me wrong, I have immense respect for men/women in ALL uniform (come from a Navy background with Sheriff as an Uncle), but the language/physical intrusion...

    Just M.O.
    younggun

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    Are these people in the same class as Rosa Parks? Not taking the back seat to their rights, so to speak?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass63 View Post
    I'm not a big fan of those who open carry to provoke trouble with LE.
    Not sure if this guy was or not. He probably was.
    I do think that public servants of what ever stripe, should act professionally.
    That involves knowing your business, and being able to speak and treat citizens respectfully.
    The response of the initial officer missed that mark by mile.
    The tirade of obscenities alone should give him some unpaid time off.
    But then, I'm from a different era.
    He'd actually been harassed several times before, so he started keeping a recorder in his pocket whenever he left the house. I'd have done the same thing, if I had been harassed in the past.

    The cop overreacted when he saw the gun. He didn't know the law and pointed his loaded firearm at an innocent person that was doing nothing wrong. Then he insults him and threatens to kill him if he doesn't obey an unlawful order. If you heard the tape, you would know that he did immediately comply, up to the point of lying on the ground, which he did eventually do. IMO, this one's all on the officer. He should know the law, and how to behave in a professional manner.

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    ALL ... and I would really stress ALL ... of what occurred was instigated and intiated by the Police, it was their stupidity that caused the whole issue. They were wrong, out of line, and about as unprofessional as they could be .... trying to intimidate and threaten him at every turn. All of these were wrong. All he did, was exercise his rights within the confines of the law.... that's it. .... every thing he did was quite legal.

    No one is concerned about your rights, until you exercise them. They did everything to interefere with him exercising his rights, and for doing nothing illegal.

    To charge him with a crime out of this and without grounds (yes, I"ve heard the tapes, etc), is a purely retaliatory move and should be investigated by the Dept of Justice with an action taken by them against the dept. As well as a lawsuit by him for pure harrassment , illegal malicious prosecution, and violating his civil liberties.

    Personally, the officers should have been reprimanded. Their adrenaline was UP , to say the least, but that's one thing any officer has to know how to control. Those that can't , shouldn't be on the force.

    An Officers' duties are not only ...... to find criminals or stop crimes.... it is also to protect & defend people's rights, not to violate them.
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    Ex Member Array Mr B's Avatar
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    After the false criminal charges are dropped, i hope he sues the hell out of them.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Good thing he recorded the event,It's hard to lie when you been recorded
    William Hill likes this.
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks
    Personally, the officers should have been reprimanded. Their adrenaline was UP , to say the least, but that's one thing any officer has to know how to control. Those that can't , shouldn't be on the force.
    I could not agree more with this. I was involved in literally thousands of incidents with citizens to violent criminals, from talking to shooting and virtually everything in between and it was very rare to nonexistent that I found it necessary to use profanity or disrespect to those I was dealing with. Yet I was still able to communicate in a manner that they were quite aware of the seriousness of my resolve and and that the consequences of disobeying my orders would be dire. While the actions in the incident may have been adrenaline inspired, I am inclined to think that they came more from habit.
    Luis50 likes this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  12. #12
    Ex Member Array William Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    The cop overreacted when he saw the gun. He didn't know the law and pointed his loaded firearm at an innocent person that was doing nothing wrong. Then he insults him and threatens to kill him if he doesn't obey an unlawful order. If you heard the tape, you would know that he did immediately comply, up to the point of lying on the ground, which he did eventually do. IMO, this one's all on the officer. He should know the law, and how to behave in a professional manner.
    In actuality, all police departments are aware of the legality of open carry. It's speled out in the updated MPOETC training memo.

  13. #13
    Member Array mkphillips's Avatar
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    I don't see how they can make the charges stick, the police racing to the call was due to the fact that the officer didn't know the law. So they should maybe charge the orginal officer instead.
    Spec likes this.

  14. #14
    Ex Member Array William Hill's Avatar
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    The good thing is: this is now national news. It's being reported by John Stossel on FOX, it made the Drudge headlines, it's everywhere now. Mark just served up a hell of a black eye to the Philly PD, and they know it. These charges are just their idea of damage control, assuming that he'll shut up about it. Unfortunately for them, he's not about to.

    I hope everyone understands, this isn't about a payday for him. He's been hassled regularly by the Philly PD, which is why he started carrying a digital recorder in the first place. Isn't it a sad world we live in when the police force you into documenting your day-to-day activities? The only reason the audio didn't disappear is because they couldn't figure out how to shut it off. I'm in contact with all parties involved; we're hoping that this will finally force the Philadelphia government to recognize and follow state laws. Right now, they violate nearly all of them. Got unpaid parking tickets? No license for you. No references from the Philadelphia area? No license for you. Expecting your license within the 45 days alotted by state law? Tough, we're taking 60 days to process your application. You want to open carry within city limits? We're gonna arrest you, steal your property, and revoke your license. Don't like it? Maybe we'll just shoot you, then.

    Hopefully, with the roaches within the department being exposed to the light, all this will finally change.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array Gun Bunny's Avatar
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    Reading the article and the comments about him "setting up the police", well to me it does not matter one bit! The police actions were wrong, period! If he did set them up, well, they fell for it hook, line and sinker! I think the Sgt had an agenda for sure, he doesn't like people to carry guns and especially people that OC! I get that from his first comments during this contact. "Yo, Junior, what are you doing?".

    I am in no way a "cop basher", but these officers especially the Sgt, didn't know the law about OC at all? I know this isn't the first story from Philly on the subject. One officer wrote a comment about "if you want to OC move to Texas". That made me laugh!
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