I started to read it, but with my short attention span I . . . uh, where was I?
Oh yeah. I really don't care about whether one chooses to OC or CC. I'm not afraid of a snake I can see. It's the one hidden under the brush that launches me into orbit. Likewise, I'm not afraid of the gun openly strapped onto one's hip; it's the one hidden under the hoodie that sets off the reactions.
I eagerly await the change to FL's CC law as to inadvertant CC exposure. I prefer discreet carry over burying my protection under whatever clothing I wear. If someone happens to catch a glimpse of my holster or gun as I reach, sit, bend over, whatever, they can just get over it. they don't need to worry about a holstered firearm.
Now THESE are the posts I wanted! :) I see where many of you (sorry Im not gunna be specific I was downstate all day and didnt expect this many responses lol.) are coming from and agree with many reasons against Open Carry but none so much that I would rule it out as an option or even an everyday option. I think from the feed back Im getting with a respectful and friendly attitude, which I have all the time anyways Im just a plesant kind of guy :) lol, there is no problem with Open carry as long as your prepared for the possibility of being stopped and questioned, which as long as its respectful to me as well I dont. I appreciate all the feedback people and all of your opinions. Again let me state I am NOT trying to start issues or say one is better than the other or anything just trying to get "both sides of the story" as it were I suppose.
I believe I said that I don't care about the opinion of some uneducated jackwad that thinks no one should OC, or carry at all for that matter. As far as the general public, yes, it does matter, but I don't believe anyone should worry about that, as long as they conduct themselves responsibly. Personally, I'm insulted that you believe I shouldn't OC because some people might perceive me as a "redneck," but that is your opinion and you have a right to it. Just like I have a right to OC and believe what I want to.
Originally Posted by Harryball
As for "Kalifornia", I stopped paying attention to what they did a long time ago. They're a lost cause as far as I'm concerned, and I can't understand why any gun owner would live in such a restrictive state. No matter what anyone says or does, they continue to infringe on 2nd Amendment rights, and get away with it. Fortunately, most other states don't follow in their ridiculous footsteps. Plenty of states are getting less and less restrictive, showing that we're doing something right.:wink:
I really don't want to have to get into this with you again. My posts are long enough as it is.:rolleyes:
I'll just leave this here and point out once again that what you may not think is acceptable in your area, might be perfectly fine somewhere else.
Originally Posted by Spidey2011
I feel like a lot of people in this thread don't really support OC. If they did, they wouldn't be questioning the motives of an OC'er. IMO, it's either 100% or 0%. There is no middle ground to be asking why. You can say you support it all day long, but most of us can tell who does and doesn't.
I can't see this thread going anywhere good. I feel like there's one good saying to describe this thread. "Opinions are like (insert anatomical part here). Everybody has one, and they all stink.":aargh4:
Ok things are getting quite heated in here again and Im not a fan of that at all. I like calm polite, though sometimes passionate, discussion or even debate. Not looking for pointing out who supports what and perhaps implying to the fact people may not mean what they say or out right lying. Lets keep it civil and polite in here. If I have to Ill shut the disscussion down.....if I can figure out how.......or Ill ask someone else to do it lol :danceban:
IMO, there is nothing to debate. It's a right, and just like a lot of rights, it might offend some people. If it's done responsibly, where's the harm? I doubt anyone here is going to question the rights of a Muslim to pray in a public park, even though MANY people would be uncomfortable around them. People need to just accept that some people do things differently. It's no one's place but my own to question how or why I carry the way I do. Like I said, it's a cultural difference and should be treated as such. Don't like it? Tough nuggies.
Originally Posted by Jenkums86
Its not about judging someone else, its about weighing the pros and cons. I started the discussion because Im new to the gun world and in my online readings I have seen probably close to or more than 95% anti- open carry. So I was anti-open carry because I only got the one side and it made sense, now Im getting the other side and it makes (to me not to everyone) even more sense. So I figured I would start this thread and try discussing it...calmly.....rationally....and weigh both sides of the coin. Really the only thing I can see as being an issue with Open carry (other than if your an ass giving us all a bad name but thats no good for anyone doing anything in anyway.) is questioning from LEO's, and if your polite and not acting a fool and your not in a hurry to get where your going theres not much of an issue.
It appears to me from whati have observed in these discussions that the only ones who get heated are those defending their choice to OC. I do not believe that OC deters crime anymore than policemen scattered all across the city. I have however seen many cases of armed security officers beat up and there weapon taken away. As a matter of fact in another thread on this subject, one of the distinguished senior members here posted many news articles on this to validate the point.
Furthermore, I have seen no advantage, crime thwarting notwithstanding, that would lead me to believe the open display of a firearm on ones person is anymore effect than one concealed.
Just because something is a legal right does not mean it's the proper thing to do. I give you the Westboro Babtist Church group as an example.
Many here that defend the open carry of a pistol frown upon someone who would open carry a rifle into an establishment. And I would agree, that's over the top. However, using the justification that is used for those who OC in public would also apply to him also. Same logic.
I submitt, that the open display of a firearm is bad manners, bad taste, and, given the lack of any real advantage over discreet CC, very questionable.
Yeah, the more I think about it and really examine it, I can say I'm against OC.
The vast majority of the public do not want to carry a gun and do not like the mear sight of a gun. It is alarming to them. It frightens them. When I am on duty I am in uniform and my weapon is on open display. The public expects this of a peace officer. When I am off duty my weapon is on my person concealed from public view. I am not alarming anyone yet if needed I can defend myself or others because I am armed. I could be off duty, display my LEO badge and ID card and walk around openly carrying my weapon in civilian clothes. Why ? This would alarm many even though they could see my badge and ID card. Most plain clothes LE investigators could do the same thing but they do not. The main reason do not is because it alarms the general public. There are tens of thousands of concealed weapons license holders in the State of Florida walking around daily not alarming anyone yet they still are armed. More people vote and do not carry firearms then those who vote and do. My home state of Maryland is a prime example.
I see no crediable advantage to open carry on the streets of our cities and towns. In the woods or on the water fine and Florida and other states allows for this. I in my own mind question the motives of those who want to carry a firearm openly in public. It has been already stated that opinions are like a@@holes, everyone has one and they all stink. I would disagree. Your body stinks only if you don't wash it and opinions stink only if they are not based on logic and common sense. My $.02 and mine alone.
"I submitt, that the open display of a firearm is bad manners, bad taste, and, given the lack of any real advantage over discreet CC, very questionable.
Yeah, the more I think about it and really examine it, I can say I'm against OC."
I dont see nor have you provided any reasons that you believe , personal or otherwise, why OC is "bad manners or bad taste" not any more than concealed carry anyways. I think carrying a rifle around in general public is pointless at best, and comparing an OC side arm to an over the shoulder slung AR-15 or AK-47 or the likes doesnt really have a point that I see. I agree that there are several documented cases of LEO's and security officers being targeted to get their guns but none that I personally know about involving Joe Regular guy OC'ing. And there is no way to prove or disprove OC helps to avoid the occurrence of crime since if it did help the crime didnt even happen. I believe the reasoning stands fairly firm that if everyday regular criminals see an armed citizen he is going to be MUCH less likely to commit the crime he was considering. Personally I believe being a practitioner of OC is a great position to take and as long as you are polite and a good person it is a very viable choice.
This is a video of our local open carry group at a ponderosa you will see someone with an AR slung over there shoulder. Most of the OC groups around do this because it is there right to. As glockman stated its poor form....
Originally Posted by Jenkums86
YouTube - ‪Lansing Ponderosa Encounter - Raw footage Police detaining and trying to illegally obtain ID's Pt 1‬‏
And the problem with "proving" deterrence is, of course, that we can't. I am (somewhat strangely, I'll admit) reminded of a Bert and Ernie sketch...
Bert asks Ernie why his is wearing a particular item (I don't remember what it was), and Ernie replies, "Oh, I wear that to keep the alligators away from Sesame Street."
Bert, understandably flummoxed, exclaims "Ernie, there ARE no alligators on Sesame Street!"
To which Ernie replies, sanguinely, "Works, doesn't it?"
Yes, the talisman may in fact be the cause of whatever we are trying to (dis)prove...but because we are trying to prove why something didn't happen, we are in a very difficult spot as far as anything definitive goes...
I agree to an extent with the essay's author - I just don't weigh the deterrent/talisman value nearly as heavily as he does, and weigh the "surprise!" value more heavily. Each of us must place value on each factor as best we can based on our own situations, knowledge, background, and experience... In my case, I CC 99% of the time (except it Chipotle, because they give cops free burritos.) :bier:
Hi new here,
I grew up in Arizona (and have lived her most of my life so far). I am pretty liberal / democrat on a fair amount of issues, but guns and the laws pertaining to them have always seemed fairly common sense to me.
I mean this in the sense that guns are typically seen as protection in an urban setting, and laws are typically only followed by law abiding citizens. Because of this I view laws restricting guns are laws restricting a persons ability to protect themselves from people who fail to respect laws in the first place, which I find foolish and ignorant.
On the specific subject of open carry I am very, uh, brainwashed I suppose. Here in Arizona open carry is legal without a permit of any type. This lead me to believe that open carry was always the lesser of two types of gun carrying (since up until recently you had to go take a class and get a permit to carry concealed here). Now, you don't see people every day walking down the street here with a gun on their belt (who aren't peace officers), but you do see it every now and then. Not to ruin the surprise, but it's not very shocking (maybe because I've been saturated with guns guns guns ever since my birth). In fact it's far less shocking then seeing a firearm someone is trying to conceal but failing miserably at.
Is it somehow threatening to see someone carrying a gun out in the open? I hope not, at least here in Arizona where it's safe to assume most people you come across are carrying a firearm concealed.
Edit: In response to the deterrent factor: I feel this is an irrelevant [or at the very most a side] argument. Deterrent or not, someone who is armed has a greater chance to defend themselves. If open carry helps deter crime, all the better, but I don't think it's worth trying to factor in because it's very hard to prove.
Edit2: I see people arguing FOR open carry. It's difficult for me to conceive this because it's existed where I live all my life. Instead I've been looking for good reasons AGAINST open carry, and I am coming up dry.
Edit3: Many arguments against open carry seem to stem from the opinion that it's not "proper". I hope people don't believe the function of laws is to determine what is polite and proper. I am pro open-carry, but I would never carry out in the open myself (minus hikes, camping, etc). Something making people 'uncomfortable' isn't a good reason to straight outlaw it. I bet there's a lot of people who don't like seeing people walk around in studded leather with mohawks dyed red and blue, and I bet it makes them feel uncomfortable too.
On a less related note I don't understand why 'gun rights' are associated with political parties. Can't we all just agree that people who think more laws on guns somehow magically make the world safer are stupid?
In my state, Kentucky, OC has always been legal. No one including myself is suggesting it be outlawed. But, the only thing I have heard in defense of OC for those who practice it , is why? Since there is no evidence that it deters crime, no evidence that it's tactically sound, ( and in most instances it has been established the reverse is true), then why do it over CC? What the motive?
I honestly don't know, they want to show off they are carrying a gun?
Originally Posted by glockman10mm
Sure it's probably stupid to do from a tactical perspective, but is that enough to say "you can't do that"?
Where in Sam Hill is anyone saying " you can't do that"? Not one single person including myself has stated that. The facts are the second amendment gives us the right to carry, and just about all states either permit CC or OC of some type. What I want to know is what really compels someone to OC when legal CC is there.
Originally Posted by angrynuni
Is it really the convience factor? Can't hide the gun you want to carry because of dress attire? That's also a good reason to carry a rifle around at sling arms too. And a rifle is much more useful. You can carry a bayonet on your belt and lock it on to keep people out of your critical distance area. It shoots farther and has more power.
Reasonable, mature , conversation is all I am looking for in an attempt to find out why some people are so up on arms over OC.
The " it's my right thing" only goes so far, and if you know anything about the legislative process, you already know it's hard enough to get a new law passed, let alone try todo away with an existing law that isn't causing any issues, and, is backed by the US Constitution. Unless, problems start to surface from said law that bring negative attention to it.
So, once again since this thread was started, why OC over CC?