Argument for Open carry

This is a discussion on Argument for Open carry within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As an LE, I can tell you that criminals are creative and look for a reason to confront. The gun showing will not make a ...

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Thread: Argument for Open carry

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    As an LE, I can tell you that criminals are creative and look for a reason to confront. The gun showing will not make a difference if deep inside you are afraid. Criminals, especially violent ones can smell the urine trickling down your leg, and they know the difference between someone with the resolve to use it, and someone wearing it to "ward off " the mean ol bad guy.
    As a matter of fact , seeing a geek with a gun is enough to actually make some want to mess with you. They know how to push your buttons, manipulate and push you over the limit. And they will. If you are nothing without the gun, you are nothing with it, and real bad guys, the kind everyone must have nightmares about know this. I know several that will just slap you and take it.
    But I suspect many know nothing about the real criminal mindset from professional standpoint, only what is read or thought.
    If you think walking around with an openly carried gun is going to keep the wolf away, you are sadly and terribly mistaken. Just hope you don't find out the hard way.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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  3. #62
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    As an LE, I can tell you that criminals are creative and look for a reason to confront. The gun showing will not make a difference if deep inside you are afraid. Criminals, especially violent ones can smell the urine trickling down your leg, and they know the difference between someone with the resolve to use it, and someone wearing it to "ward off " the mean ol bad guy.
    As a matter of fact , seeing a geek with a gun is enough to actually make some want to mess with you. They know how to push your buttons, manipulate and push you over the limit. And they will. If you are nothing without the gun, you are nothing with it, and real bad guys, the kind everyone must have nightmares about know this. I know several that will just slap you and take it.
    But I suspect many know nothing about the real criminal mindset from professional standpoint, only what is read or thought.
    If you think walking around with an openly carried gun is going to keep the wolf away, you are sadly and terribly mistaken. Just hope you don't find out the hard way.
    Not many people in this thread actually said that. Sure it was mentioned as a possible benefit, but certainly not the main reason for carrying. Most of them are mentioning personal preference, comfort, or ease of carrying. For me, it's just the way I carry. If someone legitimately wants to know about OC, that's fine. I'm all for discussing it, but when they post things like, "I question the motives if CC is an option," it just shows that they really don't care to learn more about it, therefore I don't take them seriously. All I've seen from the antis in this thread is the same old stupid arguments, that don't pertain to anything discussed here.

    I don't question you, your motives, or anything to do with the way you, or anyone else carries. Why is it so hard to return the same courtesy? We're all on the same side of the fight, regardless of our methods. Isn't that what we need to focus on, rather than arguing with each other about why we should or shouldn't OC?


    ETA: I missed this earlier, but would like to clarify it now.

    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    Spidey, I will not bash, insult, argue, etc OC vs CC, I support your right to do so legally just like CC for others, I don't like the OC vs CC arguments and threads that turn into heated crap.
    I do politely disagree with the above statement, and I'll answer your question with my own opinion....no, its nobody's business whether or not I have a gun, knife, OC, taser, or baton in my pockets.
    I don't see how its bad manners and I don't see why thats so appalling to you (definition of appalling = causing shock, horror, awful, terrible, dreadful....thats what the antis and say about ALL of us...OC and CC). I'm curious....why does that make you, a gun-owner/carrier appalled? Again, not saying this or asking you in a demeaning way, I'm curiously discussing the topic picking your brain a bit.....Do you consider it just as much bad manners to have your pistol on your side in your car where people can't see it? Isn't that the same line of thinking here?
    I DO NOT feel that way. I was simply stating something that SOMEONE could say, using the same logic presented earlier in the thread, referring to OC. I CC daily, while working in certain places, and any time I have to make a trip outside of town. For the most part though, I prefer to just use an OWB holster and not worry about whether it's covered or not. Like today for example, I was constantly on and off of a tractor, making repairs, clearing debris out of the blades, etc. It's just a PITA to make sure my gun doesn't get exposed while doing that. Not to mention a good OWB holster is MUCH more comfortable than an IWB while riding on an old tractor without a padded seat.

  4. #63
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    Damn I got a headache from the first two paragraphs. So I stopped.

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  6. #65
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyColby View Post


    Yup !
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

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  7. #66
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    The only reason that I open carry is when I have no other method of carrying set out under the given law of a state that I travel to that doesn't recognize my MN CCW permit. For example Wisconsin or Colorado. Otherwise my G26 is secured nicely in a IWB holster.

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    There are some reasons to OC, such as being the only way to visibly carry, on the range, or while in the outdoors. Other than that, I haven't seen any other reason to other than to show everyone you are carrying a firearm.
    The topic of the thread "Arguement for open carry", pretty much opens it up for debate. It's not about giving or extending courtesys and everyone getting the warm fuzzies, it's about discussing issues and debating the merits ( or lack of) as a group.

    I have no problem with someone asking or questioning my methods and reasoning, as I am an open book to anyone, that's why I post my picture in the avatar. I stand behind my words and can articulate my thoughts and ideas beyond the wore out" it's my right", or other weak reasonings that people always use.

    Furthermore, as someone who has been in the trenches for years, giving both my money and time to the cause of the second amendment, I feel I have every right to question any activity that may repudiate or cause damage to a cause I have so much investment in. And so far, I still have not found one good reason why anyone would OC when they could CC other than to make a statement.
    Harryball, wmhawth and Guantes like this.
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  9. #68
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    There are some reasons to OC, such as being the only way to visibly carry, on the range, or while in the outdoors. Other than that, I haven't seen any other reason to other than to show everyone you are carrying a firearm.
    The topic of the thread "Arguement for open carry", pretty much opens it up for debate. It's not about giving or extending courtesys and everyone getting the warm fuzzies, it's about discussing issues and debating the merits ( or lack of) as a group.

    I have no problem with someone asking or questioning my methods and reasoning, as I am an open book to anyone, that's why I post my picture in the avatar. I stand behind my words and can articulate my thoughts and ideas beyond the wore out" it's my right", or other weak reasonings that people always use.

    Furthermore, as someone who has been in the trenches for years, giving both my money and time to the cause of the second amendment, I feel I have every right to question any activity that may repudiate or cause damage to a cause I have so much investment in. And so far, I still have not found one good reason why anyone would OC when they could CC other than to make a statement.
    That's great and all, but really doesn't apply to anyone in this thread. Most of us are citing comfort and ease of carry, aside from the fact that it IS a Constitutional right and shouldn't be challenged by ANY 2nd Amendment supporter. The topic of this thread was referring more towards the article posted, rather than the endless debate that it's turned into.

    The fact of the matter is that there shouldn't be a need to explain it. Do you like when anti's question your right to CC? Probably not. In the same instance, I don't like anti's questioning my right to OC. I've cited plenty of reasons why I prefer it, yet like most anti's (anti-OC, or anti-carry period) do, my posts were ignored, for the most part.

    The way I see it, it's 100% or nothing. There is no middle ground. The 2nd Amendment mentions that my "Right to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Nowhere does it say that my right to CC shall not be infringed, and that it's ok to trample on my right to OC. I'm just as passionate as you claim to be, and I fully support OC and CC equally. I've sponsored the local FNRA Banquet, I've taken the time to become a certified 4H shooting sports instructor in 3 different disciplines, and I'm currently working to persuade my county to allow rimfire rifles into our program. IMO, YOU are the one that may be hurting our "cause", by allowing your opinion to be swayed against our rights. This is exactly what they want. Divide and conquer. If we can all just acknowledge the right to carry and forget about which method is more appropriate, we'll be a lot better off.

    I'll leave you with this. An anti is an anti, no matter how you spin it. Anti-OC is anti-2nd Amendment as far as I'm concerned. If you don't agree with me OC'ing, so be it. I really don't care.

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Spidey2011, this is more of the same. More rethoric about my rights blah, blah, more spinning the facts by distorting and attempting to claim anyone who questions the reason someone does something as somehow subversive or otherwise an "anti".
    The 100% or nothing is a very dogmatic and dangerously misguided.
    To further insinuate that I am "anti" is a ridiculous assumption biased by your own dogmatic view, further demonstrating to me that the reason that most people OC is with an attitude of "it's my right, by gawd I'll show them", with the belief that others will be forced to see it your way.

    The reference to the specificity of the thread that you continue to make is an attempt to defend OC. I simply do not agree with most of it.
    How many posts have we seen on here about people doing " the Wally World Walk", testing out their OC? What the hell is that about? Why would anyone even do that? What's the motive?

    Yeah this has become a dead horse. Same old Rhetoric, defensive attitudes, and no answers. I think I'm getting closer to understanding the mindset. I don't agree with it, but I do agree that it's your right. Just like burning the flag, or any number of other things.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  11. #70
    Member Array Mjodr's Avatar
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    I prefer Open Carry mainly because I am overweight, and it is more comfortable for me. Not to mention it is so hot in Florida that wearing enough clothes to CC kills me. It's bad enough that I already get sick from the heat, without having to add clothing...

    OC isn't legal here right now, but I am moving to a state where it is.
    Coming soon to a Montana near you!

  12. #71
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    I've seen plenty of threads referencing a walk around Wally World to test their new CC as well. I'm not saying you have to agree with OC, but I don't understand why so many people have to argue about it or "try to figure out why." We've all said why.

    I fail to see how supporting the Constitution 100% is a dangerous mindset. It's non negotiable as far as I'm concerned. I'm given certain rights, and my state lets me exercise those rights. The complete abolition of OC (or even if people just stopped OC'ing) would put us one step closer to removing the 2nd Amendment as a whole. I've already earned my rights by being a law abiding citizen, the age of majority, without a criminal record. At this point, there shouldn't be ANY restrictions on what I can or can't do with my guns. Unfortunately, a good portion of society seems to have forgotten that.

    Like I've said 100 times, you don't have to agree with it. Around here it's an accepted practice. Maybe that's not the case in your state. My reasons are my own, and not the problem of anyone else. I hurt no one, so go about your business and don't worry about me.

    As for the anti part, I'm trying to make you understand a point. You have presented arguments very similar to those that oppose carry altogether. Much the way some people support the right to own a hunting rifle, but oppose the right to own an "assault rifle." None of that makes much sense in my book.

  13. #72
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjodr View Post
    I prefer Open Carry mainly because I am overweight, and it is more comfortable for me. Not to mention it is so hot in Florida that wearing enough clothes to CC kills me. It's bad enough that I already get sick from the heat, without having to add clothing...

    OC isn't legal here right now, but I am moving to a state where it is.
    I understand that, and it's a good reason. Not that you need a reason, but I can see the logic. Stay safe.
    Mjodr likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I understand that, and it's a good reason. Not that you need a reason, but I can see the logic. Stay safe.
    Thank you. Even so, I see that there are times for OC, and times for CC. My family is anti-gun, so if I visit them.. it is CC all the way, no matter what state they are in... Florida, Michigan, West Virginia....
    Coming soon to a Montana near you!

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post


    ETA: I missed this earlier, but would like to clarify it now.



    I DO NOT feel that way. I was simply stating something that SOMEONE could say, using the same logic presented earlier in the thread, referring to OC. I CC daily, while working in certain places, and any time I have to make a trip outside of town. For the most part though, I prefer to just use an OWB holster and not worry about whether it's covered or not. Like today for example, I was constantly on and off of a tractor, making repairs, clearing debris out of the blades, etc. It's just a PITA to make sure my gun doesn't get exposed while doing that. Not to mention a good OWB holster is MUCH more comfortable than an IWB while riding on an old tractor without a padded seat.
    spidey.....thanks because either you forgot some wording or it was misinterpreted....but it seems to me you did say it as if it was the way you felt :
    Ok, I'll use the same logic for a minute. I feel that it's bad manners to hide the fact that you are carrying a deadly weapon. Wouldn't a lot of people like to know that you have the power to kill someone at any moment? I find that utter disregard for others to be appauling, and I question why you would ever want to do something like that.
    and glockman is trying to add more info for thought, and brings up some good points, my OWB paddle has ALS retention just like my duty holster, I don't want someone grabbing my gun, not arguing, just saying and adding more thoughts

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  16. #75
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    spidey.....thanks because either you forgot some wording or it was misinterpreted....but it seems to me you did say it as if it was the way you felt :
    Actually, it was stated in the next paragraph after that. See the bold below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    Ok, I'll use the same logic for a minute. I feel that it's bad manners to hide the fact that you are carrying a deadly weapon. Wouldn't a lot of people like to know that you have the power to kill someone at any moment? I find that utter disregard for others to be appauling, and I question why you would ever want to do something like that.

    Works both ways don't it? Now, i don't actually feel that way, but I'm sure some people do. I believe I said before that it really depends on where you are as to whether or not it's viewed as acceptable. Around here, I know of more OC'ers than CC'ers, and no one local gives it a second thought. Ya, I get a few strange looks from out-of-staters, but I've never really had a negative experience. I don't feel that there's an advantage to either. Like I said, it's a way of life out here, and should be chocked up to a cultural difference.

    As far as the discussion getting "heated." Does it not make sense that the only ones taking offense are the ones being questioned? I think it makes perfect sense. You question why I OC, I'm well within my rights to get a little upset, especially since I already calmly explained my reasons, which were well thought out and explained in detail. Seems that it was ignored, even though it was one of the few posts in this thread that offered up some decent information, aside from the same old anti-OC crap that's spewed out in every one of these threads.

    I'm not gonna change anybody's mind, and you're not going to change mine. You continue to CC, I'll continue to OC. You respect my rights, and I'll respect yours. If you don't like it, you don't have to be in the OC section. There's a CC section that some people might be better off sticking to.
    I'm all for people that legitimately want to understand why we OC, but it seems like a lot of our reasons are ignored, and the same people keep spouting off the same old rhetoric about how the talisman effect is a horrible reason to OC, when most of us don't even consider that as a reason.

    On a side note, yes retention is important. Any holster that I OC with has good retention, usually that's a strap. Most OC'ers have already thought of that, and we DO use good holsters.

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