Argument for Open carry

This is a discussion on Argument for Open carry within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; well now its clear, it wasn't clear at the time and good for you on the holster...

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Thread: Argument for Open carry

  1. #76
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    well now its clear, it wasn't clear at the time

    and good for you on the holster
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Open carry is natural for any citizen of the United States. No reason anyone should feel out of place open carrying. The laws of the land become twisted and up to interpretation. We live through all of the BS. When you legally open carry, it's an education for those who have problems with every day life. Open carry gets the message out no matter how many spineless folks disagree. Let the spineless die as victims, and never feel remorse. Most everyone has been warned by now, and you can't save the world by yourself. Such is the way of things.
    You hit the nail on the head.Education for people about our rights.I do both, depends on how I feel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Why not just hide the darn thing,
    Because I am not a sneaking slithering slimy sleaze ball that needs to HIDE anything I do. The reason we have concealed carry permits is because at one time not so long ago that was the perception of anyone who needed to hide their gun. That they must be some kind of scum sucking maggot. That is the reason why those that wanted to HIDE their weapon needed to be vetted. While those who open carried like MOST people did at the time where obviously open about their conduct intend and abilities. It is way past time that people grow up get over their irrational fear of guns. As more and more people return to open carry people will get over their irrational fear of guns and be no more freaked out at the sight of s gun than they are at the sight of testosterone driven boys and giggling teen age girls driving two ton fully automatic assault vehicles down the freeway.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Because I am not a sneaking slithering slimy sleaze ball that needs to HIDE anything I do.
    Not really sure what to make of that comment, but I'll leave it alone and assume thats not what you think of anyone who CC's only.

    I don't have much to add to the discussion other than the fact that I live in an OC legal state, and I will NEVER do it. Why? Because I feel it would put a target on my back primarily. I understand its my RIGHT to do it, however I also personally think its a bad idea and inviting trouble potentially. I don't have a rambo-complex where I think I'm badass enough to ward off any situation. I'm a big guy at 6'3" and about 250 lbs, but some drugged out band of thugs who don't really care about my life, let alone theirs, wouldn't hesitate for a minute to try to get that gun if they thought they had an inch to do so. To me, its an invitation for scumbags, and I don't need the legal hassle if I end up having to shoot one of them simply because I didn't have my gun concealed as I went about my business.

    So in short, even though I CAN OC, I choose CC. Not because I'm a "sleaze ball" that needs to hide anything I do, but because I feel like thats the best way to defend myself and my family without incurring unnecessary attention and risk factor. I don't invite other dudes to watch me pee in the restroom either, so not everything needs to be everyone elses business.
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  6. #80
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    I did not read all of the replies to this thread so maybe it's already been said.. if so.. sorry.

    But.. WHO THE HECK IS THIS AUTHOR?!?!

    What are these studies he refers to?

    What kind of credentials does he have to make the kinds of claims he is making?

    I'm honestly neither here nor there on the whole "open carry" thing, but this "article" is laughable.

  7. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by shyguy122577 View Post
    I conceal carry every where I go. I have two issues with open carry. 1. open carriers come off sometimes as cocky to other people and LEOs. there were four guys that walked into a Wawa (a convenience store), that opened carried. it was a aura of something I could not explain around them lol. maybe pride or something. of course people stared and some ask questions. they responded with the usual of its their right etc etc. in a way that even I, an NRA member was turned off by. even when I watch videos in other towns of open carry, they come off cocky while open carrying an unloaded gun (which makes no sense to me) and I even seen a guy that open carried an AK 47.

    2. this article discusses a lot of not being a target in the first place but when I first got my gun, I did so to protect my family in life or death situations, not so much of to avoid being a target. I leave my common sense and awareness to do that job. I may be alone in this but if I was in a situation and my life was not in danger I would cooperate. its not worth the future issues unless my family or my own life is in danger. I also think that while the open carry will deter some crime, it can invite even bigger actions from the BGs to get you. they may see open carry as $$$ and rob by shooting first. at the very least, they have a free gun to sell.

    open carry is a right that we have in many states. unfortunately, when standing up for a law that you believe in, I do not see any other way to do that without coming off cocky or as a know it all of laws and policies.
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    You are not alone. I think a responsible person who carries a gun should do so with great care and discretion. If I did not feel I was in direct danger personally, I may or may stop a robbery or shoplifter, etc even though the law in my state clearly says I can use deadly force to stop a felony in progress.

    Watch this video and you tell me, was this a smart move? The guy with the gun could have shot the child (and probably deafened them) and the perp shot back which could have killed ANY of them. Luckily that did not happen, but had he just given the money the instance would have been over.

    And they could have cooperated, and then have been executed by the robber.
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    I have open carried since Indiana made it law. I have never had the police called on me. I have never had anyone tell me that they dis-liked it or felt that it was wrong. I agree, the bad guys will pick on those that they feel they can get away with it. I think as I open carry, that no one will be so stupid as to try to gain the upper hand with me, seeing a condition 1-45 open carried on my hip. I have been to several stores and have been told by managers and store employee's that they wish more patrons would OC. I have been side by side with a State Police officer in a store and not one word was said about my OC. Given time and more people will start too open carry and you'll see how the trend will change and people will accept it. I don't want to be the surprise to the bad guys, I want them to see my firearm and for me not too be a victim. Would you pick on man A. with a firearm showing, or pick on man B. with nothing showing? Even if man B. has his concealed, if it comes too it, man B shoots the the BG then you'll be finding a lawyer and going through more trouble than you could ever imagine. For me it's open carry everywhere but in church and when I enter the local banks. I never again in my life want to have too kill another man, yes I had too.. And it was, and is the worst thing to ever experience!! I hope no one will ever have to go through it.

  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911 mike View Post
    Given time and more people will start too open carry and you'll see how the trend will change and people will accept it. I don't want to be the surprise to the bad guys, I want them to see my firearm and for me not too be a victim. Would you pick on man A. with a firearm showing, or pick on man B. with nothing showing?
    I agree with everything you said. I wish my state allowed open-carry. I think at first a lot of people around here would be very alarmed and there'd probably be a lot of calls to 911 about MWAG. But after some time people would get over it, and actually become accustomed to it. I think besides deterring bad guys, there is another positive benefit of it. It would help educate the sheeple. I've had many conversations with people here in my state who are not even familiar with concealed carry. They were shocked to find out I carry a gun and that lots of people around them are probably carrying one too, all perfectly legal. When I have these conversations, people are usually alarmed at first. They think that any crazy person might be carrying a gun around. But then after I explain the requirements of getting the CHL, and the statistics of how few incidents there have been, they usually feel a lot better about it. So your average person just has no idea how many are walking around them all day. Some are bad guys with illegal guns, others are good guys with CHL. Seeing the guns being carried openly should help more people understand that guns are not just for bad guys and cops. Not only that, but I think seeing other people do it might initiate more folks to do it, sort of a chain reaction.

    I'm still holding out for 2013, the next possible time for Texas legislature to look at this issue.

  10. #84
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    Ok just a couple of thoughts.

    I did not read all the posts many are the same or have the same idea but here are just some general observations.

    The original posting just as Lima stated has what credentials to back up what he is saying. For every paragraph he wrote there can be a counter to say it is wrong or different.

    Please stop with using the word sheep, sheeple, sheep dog, wolf or rabid raccoon and other descriptors to describe persons whom either carry or don't carry a firearm. There are people in this world who do not carry firearms for defense who can maim/disable/kill with either their bare hands or a blade before you can draw your magnum super blaster from OC or CC. A porcipine (sp) is a rather benign creature until you mess with it then it can hurt you, a grizzly bear is at the top of the food chain but in some circumstances be scared away by an air horn or a cow bell. What category do these fit in? Personally if you are going to refer to an animal to describe those who carry make it something cool like Mamba or Cobra and those who don't tadpole or something but remember in the real world the Cobra may turn and run when faced with the Mongoose so be prepared to swap roles when needed.

    If I was a bad guy and was intent on committing a crime, I come into the bank/store/mall and see someone OC'ing A. He is given one challenge and I drop him or B. He is given no challenge and he is shot in the head and I take his toy.
    Yes over time people may become used to the idea of OC who knows, but for every OC person who is being the grey man going about their business there are 3 others who are walking around with rifles at the salad bar waiting and hoping for a confrontation with LE in order to videotape it to "Educate the public" What the heck education does this serve? I carry an AK to Wendy's because I can!!!!! and people better just get used to it and then wonder why the manager calls the police.

    I dont personally care how you carry your firearm but you better know what you are doing. If you can legally OC go for it. If you feel it gives you a tactical advantage great. If you think it deters or scares the bad guys away keep living in your fantasy world because one day someone will show you just how big and bad you think you are. I just hope you survive the encounter.
    Harryball likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad View Post
    And they could have cooperated, and then have been executed by the robber.
    Exactly right. I will never ever depend on the good sense or mercy of a violent criminal who has threatened me.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    If you think it deters or scares the bad guys away keep living in your fantasy world because one day someone will show you just how big and bad you think you are. I just hope you survive the encounter.
    You mean this fantasy? Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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    Longrider not jousting or disagreeing with you but Yes this is the fantasy I am talking about. One circumstance does not a case make.

    According to the article the "Gang of robbers armed with rifles" did not commit the robbery because there were two guys eating pancakes with holstered weapons. Wow these must have been some big bad gangbangers and hardcore criminals to be detered by that.
    Now lets look at it from the eyes of someone intent on robbing the place who is not intimidated. He walks in sees the guys with guns and now their deterent makes them the target and he simply shoots them before they even notice he is there or simply disarms them at gunpoint.

    Don't get me wrong I am glad that the incident ended the way it did and that the BG's backed off, but had there been 6 guys from a bodybuilding club, Karate Dojo, football team sitting at a table the ending may have been exactly the same. I also must realize I am used to a different level of violence than some are so what someone else considers a threat I do not.
    To me this incident could lead to some OC'ing with the mindset "I have a gun on and everyone can see so the bad guys are afraid so I and everyone around me is safe" type attitude. Then they meet someone who is not afraid or intimidated and wonder why they now are staring down the barrel of their own weapon because it was taken away from them or being targeted by a BG in a similar situation just because they are carrying a gun.

    The criminal element is not afraid of confrontation with armed Police Officers or SWAT teams that is why Police Officers are assaulted/shot/ and killed daily so they are sure not afraid of someone with a pistol on his/her hip. If the bad guy is scared off at the mere sight of a gun then he is not much of a bad guy is he.
    Now I don't know either one of these guys and they may be highly skilled shooters and so on but probably not. Had this been a group of hardened persons about to commit the same act they would have done a recon, and simply come in guns blazing or simply had one man outside the window to eliminate the threat before they even entered.

    We as people who carry must plan for the WORST CASE SCENARIO as in a confrontation with someone who does not care and will take you life just because he can.

    And just a reminder I am not against OC if you can do it and have the skills to go along with it great.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    seeing a geek with a gun is enough to actually make some want to mess with you
    What's a "geek with a gun?"

    I am more apt to OC in the summer due to the same reason that mjodr stated. I generally don't but do from time to time....never had anyone second-glance, never been stopped by a citizen to explain, never been on the receiving end of a MWAG call, nada.
    "Sir, could you please not bleed so much? I have to clean the store after they haul you off and I'd like the rest of my shift, to be, like, you know, better."

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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Please stop with using the word sheep, sheeple, sheep dog, wolf or rabid raccoon and other descriptors to describe persons whom either carry or don't carry a firearm.
    I actually love the word sheeple and I use it on a regular basis even outside of firearms discussion. The only other animal that would fit better would be lemming, but it doesn't combine well with the word "people." I use the word to describe anyone who goes about their every day life without ever thinking outside the box. Sheeple are people who resist change, resist opinions that are different from theirs, and just like the status-quo. I'd say 95% of people fall into this category. I have dealt with people like this for 20 years. For example, how many people just use a Windows PC because its "what everybody uses," but complain when their computer is filled with Malware? How many have tried using a Mac, or Linux? People drive gasoline cars because it is "what everybody drives." and never think about using natural gas or electric power. But then complain when gasoline prices rise. It is the EXACT SAME mentality that allows gun control to disarm a society and then complain when the violent crime increases.

    Of course, we're all guilty of being sheeple at some point. For example, I don't try to set fashion trends or come up with the next new style of music. I'm no good at those things and really just don't care. So I admit to being a sheeple in those areas of my life.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Longrider not jousting or disagreeing with you but Yes this is the fantasy I am talking about. One circumstance does not a case make.

    According to the article the "Gang of robbers armed with rifles" did not commit the robbery because there were two guys eating pancakes with holstered weapons. Wow these must have been some big bad gangbangers and hardcore criminals to be detered by that.
    Now lets look at it from the eyes of someone intent on robbing the place who is not intimidated. He walks in sees the guys with guns and now their deterent makes them the target and he simply shoots them before they even notice he is there or simply disarms them at gunpoint.
    Please provide an incident where a citizen OC'ing was targeted because of their gun during a robbery. I am unaware of ANY such incidents. This is just a typical "what if" argument used to justify the anti-OC stance. We can "what if" all day long, but it means nothing in the real world.
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    Once again for the 999,999,999 time I am not opposed to OC and say clearly in the last sentence of my post. I am not anti OC,CC, or anything else so do not put me into your typical category of anything.

    Did I state anywhere that a person OCing had been targeted? You are right it is a what if type scenario. What if the BG's had done this or the OCer's had done that. I stated that these crooks were were not very dangerous in the first place if the sight of two armed guys eating pancakes scared them off and they were armed with rifles. I further stated that this could have the potential to put in peoples heads the mentality that just because they wear a firearm where everyone can see it all is right with the world and they and all around them are safe, the BG's will flee in fear of the armed man.

    As stated you carry the way you want and I will carry my way and I hope that when the time comes in life that the hammer is dropped on someone else that we both survive the encounter.

    The sheeple comment was not really addressed to you adric but since you answered it ok whatever you say. It just gets old to here these terms used all the time. Many claim to be "Sheep Dogs" but if it came down to it they would not get involved. And you are right there are sheep in every realm of life who go around with blinders on to the realities of life and then wonder why they get run over by a bus and are ussually the professional victims in life. They ussually use terms like "I am no good at this so I simply don't care" so I guess I have to agree with what you yourself stated, you are a sheeple.

    P.S. You are right I can't find a darn thing to make lemming and people sound good together.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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