Philadelphia Police Say They Won't Look the Other Way on Open-Carry Gun Owners

This is a discussion on Philadelphia Police Say They Won't Look the Other Way on Open-Carry Gun Owners within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by K9Buck William, is it open-carry in your jurisdiction? If so, do you open-carry? Have you ever had an issue because of it? ...

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 73
Like Tree33Likes

Thread: Philadelphia Police Say They Won't Look the Other Way on Open-Carry Gun Owners

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array William Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by K9Buck View Post
    William, is it open-carry in your jurisdiction? If so, do you open-carry? Have you ever had an issue because of it?
    I live in PA, which is an open carry state. Philly likes to think it's above the law, especially it's officers and district attorneys. I open carry when the weather permits, because PA weather is so damn ridiculous; it snows in late April, and can be 90+ degrees in October. I conceal when I have to, like when I take my kids to the mall, or to the hospital. I've had a few issues with it, mostly with busybodies who like to walk up to me and tell me how I'm scaring them.

    Isn't that odd? If someone scared me, the last thing I'd do is walk up to them, wag my finger in their face, interrupt their meal, and otherwise be rude, just to let them know how scary they are.

    People who would walk up to you and say that you're scaring them are full of excrement. I know when someone was scared, because that's when the police show up. Most of my police encounters have gone smoothly, mostly because I ignore them. I'm not saying I make it a habit of ignoring LEO, but when one walks or drives up to me and says, "We got a call about a man with a gun, can i see your..." that's my cue to walk away. They know the law, they know open carry doesn't provide RAS, but they're stopping me anyway. So, I choose not to put myself through an argument with a badge with an attitude. I have a friend who also open carries in my area. He's had more negative experiences, but I think that has more to do with his ethnicity than anything else. He was proned out in Philly a few years ago for open carry; according to him, he was told to get his "dumb black behind on the ground, or get shot" by Philly finest.
    Mr B likes this.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    Tolerance is a two way street. There is no doubt the LEO was a little out of line in this situation as is evident by the fact that he is facing disciplinary action for his handling of the call. His foul language and actions showed some poor judgement and indicated (at least to me) a level of fear and inability to control the situation.

    However, there is little doubt (in my mind) that had Mr. Fiorino complied with the officers initial requests to the point that the officer felt more in control of the situation, things would have turned out much differently. Especially if Mr. Firoino had his permit on his person, which was indicated that he did in the article.

    I support open carry. I personally do not feel the need to open carry for many reasons, this incident not withstanding, but I do support open carry for those who do. However, for those who do open carry, they know full well, it's a hot issue. They know full well, there are going to large segments of the general public who are going to hold irrational fears of people with guns being displayed openly, and others who are just anti-gun zealots. They have full knowledge of this going in and thus, should be expected to know, and understand people are going to be calling the police for the "man with a gun" type calls.

    If they choose to be confrontational with police when an LEO confronts them in the performance of doing their job, things could get a little heated. Is it right that a law abiding citizen exercising their constitutional rights and are within the law be "proned out" on the street and manhandled when no overt threats or suspicious behavior is being exhibited? Of course not! However, if a person who chooses to open carry does not at least expect that may happen from time to time is being a little hard headed and closed minded, in my opinion.

    Those of us who are "into" guns are of course, fully aware that guns don't just magically "go off" by itself, however, a little common sense is in order on our part regarding those who don't understand. We all know there is a large portion of the general population who are not into guns, do not understand the mechanics of weapons in general and quite frankly, don't want to know. Also many of those, will have totally irrational fears regarding guns and those who carry them. They don't understand as we do, that criminals don't go around with their weapons neatly carried on their hip in a proper holster and openly displayed for all to see, yet casually minding their own business doing normal things everyone else does. They don't understand that criminals generally conceal their weapons, only to display them suddenly, and menacingly when they initiate their crime. All they see is "a man with a gun." And all they know about guns, is that guns can kill someone... apparently all by itself. But that's the way it is. There is always going to be a large segment of folks who feel that way.

    Again, I feel if Mr. Fiorino had complied with the officers requests... At least to the point where the officer felt he was in control of the situation and comfortable that Mr. Fiorino wasn't going to draw his weapon and shoot him... things would have turned out much differently.

    As far as the response from the Philadelphia Police as a whole, in response to this incident... I think they are acting a little out of spite and anger that they were publicly embarrassed by the officers behavior and his lack of knowledge regarding their own gun laws as well as how he handled the situation. As a department, I think they feel they have to back him up... but at the same time acknowledge his was also partly in the wrong, so they may end up disciplining him. This is just my opinion based on this one article.
    William Hill likes this.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    1,493
    Bark'n: Obvisouly, from my previous posts, I agree with you.

    On the other hand, if Mr. Hill's comments truly reflect the overall, long-standing situation in Philly, then it is also understandable that law-abiding citizens of that area, who chose to exercise thier constitutional RTBA could develop an attitude of contempt for the Philly PD. This would explain an attitude that says to the cops in essence: "if I'm not breaking the law, I'm just going to ignore you." We, as citizens, have a fundamental right in this country to expect our civil servants to also personally uphold the law they enforce. If, as a whole system, the Philly PD is less than honorable with their attitudes, this is an ugly situation. Since you and I both have military backgrounds, I'm sure that both of us have seen commanders/NCO's who abused their power and their supervisors backed them up. At whatever level it occurs, that is a tragic mis-carriage of justice and coud easily explain Mr. Hills attitude. I've never been to Philly, and think that I will make it a point to never go there.......
    William Hill likes this.
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array swinokur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    919
    Yes, that's right. Just move to the back of the bus like they tell you to. Get away from that lunch counter. Don't drink at that water fountain. Don't cause a commotion. They're just doing their job.

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    1,493
    Yes, that's right. Just move to the back of the bus like they tell you to. Get away from that lunch counter. Don't drink at that water fountain. Don't cause a commotion. They're just doing their job.
    You know, as I think about what you and Mr. Hill have posted, you probably have a semi-valid point. I personally, and probably a lot of us here on this forum, as "respectable, law-abiding citizens" (I mean, you have to pass the background checks to get your CCL), we (I know I have not) probably have never personally encountered a consistent abuse of power by the legal authorities. If I had, I might have a very different attitude towards how I behave towards the Philly PD.
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

  7. #36
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oceanfront Property
    Posts
    3,850
    I will spend my tourist money in places other than Philly.....
    William Hill likes this.

  8. #37
    Ex Member Array William Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    Bark'n: Obvisouly, from my previous posts, I agree with you.

    On the other hand, if Mr. Hill's comments truly reflect the overall, long-standing situation in Philly, then it is also understandable that law-abiding citizens of that area, who chose to exercise thier constitutional RTBA could develop an attitude of contempt for the Philly PD. This would explain an attitude that says to the cops in essence: "if I'm not breaking the law, I'm just going to ignore you." We, as citizens, have a fundamental right in this country to expect our civil servants to also personally uphold the law they enforce. If, as a whole system, the Philly PD is less than honorable with their attitudes, this is an ugly situation. Since you and I both have military backgrounds, I'm sure that both of us have seen commanders/NCO's who abused their power and their supervisors backed them up. At whatever level it occurs, that is a tragic mis-carriage of justice and coud easily explain Mr. Hills attitude. I've never been to Philly, and think that I will make it a point to never go there.......

    This is what myself, and people like Mark Fiorino are trying to illustrate. I want to go on record as saying, that I have a deep respect for anyone who runs towards danger for a living, whether they're law enforcement, military, or other emergency personnel. I have many friends who serve in all these capacities, and it angers me when someone else dishonors the job they've decided to take on. It's not a case of me arbitrarily being disrespectful to LEO. You've pretty much hit it on the head: this is a long standing problem in Philly; the police force has always been rife with corruption and police abuses, including the bombing of the Osage house. 1985, the Philadelphia Police dropped a mixture of civilian and military explosives on a "home-made" wood bunker, built on the roof of the Osage Avenue house occupied by members of the MOVE organization. The bomb ignited several barrels of gasoline starting a fire which destroyed the entire block, leaving 250 people homeless, and killed eleven people.

    In 2010, officer Robert Ralston, a 21 year veteran of the PPD shot himself in the shoulder at 4:00 AM on April the 5th and claimed that he had been shot by one of two African Americans who he claimed had fled the scene. His statements resulted in a massive manhunt including SWAT personnel. After being confronted with evidence showing that he had shot himself and was offered immunity he confirmed that the wound was self inflicted. As of June 2010 Ralston had been fired after being placed on paid leave following the admission. He was never charged with anything, by the way.

    Recently, it was discovered that there was a burglary ring operating within the police department. Many of those officers were also discovered to be involved in drug trafficking and extortion, as well as racketeering. This isn't an isolated case; it's been going on for decades, and nearly every one who lives in Philly knows about it. Is it any wonder that not only criminals fear them, but law abiding citizens? When the people who are paid to protect you are as bad as the criminals they've sworn to fight, you 're left with little options but to be disgusted by them.

    In essence, the Philly PD is the East Coasts equivalent to the LAPD. I only go into Philly when I need to , like visit my younger brother, and I make it clear how much I don't want to be there. I don't put any money into that city if I can help it.

  9. #38
    Member Array K9Buck's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Orlando
    Posts
    92
    The Philly PD should respect the law and not harass law-abiding, open-carry owners. If it's legal then it's legal. A cop once told me that if I didn't like a law to write my congressman to get them to change it. Well, turnabout is fair play and if the cops don't like the law then that's what they should do too.

    I still maintain that getting the word out (education) to some of these communities would help reduce the number of complaints and calls to police.

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array hudsonvalley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    lower hudson valley ny
    Posts
    849
    Don't think bad guys would open carry......
    Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
    ---Ronald Reagan

  11. #40
    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    404
    Sounds like it is time for an open carry rally in Philly.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,426
    Quote Originally Posted by tflhndn View Post
    Sounds like it is time for an open carry rally in Philly.
    Sounds like to me as well.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    1,298
    Hope the Philly cops are never in a situation where a permit holder was in a position to save their behind someday.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  14. #43
    Member Array mrjam2jab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Levittown, PA
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by tflhndn View Post
    Sounds like it is time for an open carry rally in Philly.
    See this thread...watch for additional dates

  15. #44
    Member Array Mjodr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Lakeland, Florida
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by K9Buck View Post
    The Philly PD should respect the law and not harass law-abiding, open-carry owners. If it's legal then it's legal. A cop once told me that if I didn't like a law to write my congressman to get them to change it. Well, turnabout is fair play and if the cops don't like the law then that's what they should do too.

    I still maintain that getting the word out (education) to some of these communities would help reduce the number of complaints and calls to police.
    I'm similar to you. I, too, am new to the world of firearms; and live in Florida which currently doesn't allow open carry... ;)

    I wish that education was all that was needed, but unfortunately, too many people don't care if it is legal or not... they'd rather just interfere with others' Constitutional Rights.

    I'm actually in the process of moving to Montana due to health issues... It'll actually be nice to be able to open carry.

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    1,493
    I'm actually in the process of moving to Montana due to health issues... It'll actually be nice to be able to open carry.
    Where are you moving to in MT? We have a number of folks here on DC from MT.
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

can you carry a gun in the philadelphia zoo
,
can you conceal carry in philadelphia
,

carrying a knife in philadelphia

,
ccw in philadelphia
,

ccw philadelphia

,

concealed carry in philadelphia

,
how old do you have to be to carry a knife in philadelphia
,

philadelphia ccw

,
philadelphia concealed carry
,

philadelphia zoo firearms

,
philaedelphia zoo parking scam
,

the town cop looks the other way

Click on a term to search for related topics.