How about a shirt that says you are carrying?

This is a discussion on How about a shirt that says you are carrying? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by adric22 So let me get this straight... If somebody didn't think your gun was real, you'd just shoot them to prove it? ...

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Thread: How about a shirt that says you are carrying?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    So let me get this straight... If somebody didn't think your gun was real, you'd just shoot them to prove it? And if there is a fight going on in a crowded place and your family is being beaten (or about to be beaten) with a baseball bat, you'd just go ahead and shoot the guy rather than let him know he has a chance to stop and live?
    Yes, I would shoot center of mass until there was no longer a threat. The person didn't give me a "Warning" prior to his engagement with violence otherwise I would have left.
    And to think I was once told I was a criminal on this forum because I would shoot an home invader in the middle of the night without stopping to ask why he was invading my home. if this isn't hypocritical, I don't know what is.

    And I carry a 9mm, by the way, and yes I carry it unchambered.



    You know, just because we have different opinions on things does not indicate that I "require training."
    When your "different opinion" goes totally against common, well accepted training practices endorsed by many state governments and in some instances legal statues, yes it does indicate that you may be in serious need of additional training.


    Try not taking the information being offered as an insult, take it in the way it was meant, to help you improve your self defense responses. There are thousands if not tens of thousands of hours of training and real world experiences behind the info you are being given for free. That training was not free for the instructors that give it and the real world experience was paid for in the ultimate way for those that gave it all and we learn from their errors.
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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Most of the things we discuss on this forum are theoretical at best. I have all of the training required by law, and some extra training on top of that. Which makes me better trained than probably of a lot of the CHL holders out there. The difference is that I am here on the forum discussing things and they are not. By your definition, everybody "needs more training."

    I seem to get a lot of personal attacks on this forum. Sometimes I do post things that are controversial. Sometimes it is just an idea I just had, and thought I'd throw it out there and see what people's opinions are. It doesn't mean I plan to do something. After all, it does get old fighting over the same old topics like "which caliber should I use."

    I don't know why people can't be more mature and just state their opinion, the reasons for their opinions, and leave it at that. Why do there have to be so many personal attacks?
    Having someone disagree with you is not a personal attack. On this thread, you've received some healthy challenges, which shows concern of your well being from other forum members. Lima actually took the time to answer some of your scenario questions, which you would not have likely asked had you done just a little reading by subject matter experts like Massad Ayoob. If this hurts your feelings, perhaps thicker skin will serve you better.
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Most of the things we discuss on this forum are theoretical at best. I have all of the training required by law, and some extra training on top of that. Which makes me better trained than probably of a lot of the CHL holders out there. The difference is that I am here on the forum discussing things and they are not. By your definition, everybody "needs more training."

    I seem to get a lot of personal attacks on this forum. Sometimes I do post things that are controversial. Sometimes it is just an idea I just had, and thought I'd throw it out there and see what people's opinions are. It doesn't mean I plan to do something. After all, it does get old fighting over the same old topics like "which caliber should I use."

    I don't know why people can't be more mature and just state their opinion, the reasons for their opinions, and leave it at that. Why do there have to be so many personal attacks?
    This is honestly one of the most polite gun forums you will find on the internet. We are very particular about personal attacks and if myself or another moderator were to see any we would deal with it immediately. You can also report what you think to be a personal attack by clicking the little triangle with the "!" in it at the bottom of the post and the ENTIRE staff panel will asses it and decide whether or not it is an attack. If you have a problem with a moderator, by all means, take it up with another moderator.. we moderate each other as well. We try very hard to be polite and fair.

    We have a saying around here... attack the idea, not the person. We do NOT allow people to be insulted or flamed, etc. If you feel like you are being attacked because of your ideas maybe it's not that you, personally, are being attacked but maybe that your ideas need some rethinking.

    And, yes, we could ALL do with a LOT more training. No one is perfect and I hope that we are all trying to continue our training and better ourselves.

    There are a lot of people on this forum that have MUCH more experience and training than you or I or another dozen people put together and when they say, "Hey, that is BAD!" I would (and do) listen to them. My advice to you would be to do the same.

    This forum is about learning and developing. I have changed a lot of my own personal opinions and ideas by being a member here and am grateful for what I've learned, who I've met and where their advice had lead me (usually to more training).

    We don't care about controversial subjects as much as we do that people learn from them.. it's one thing to say, "Hey, what do you think of this?" and actually take the advice given and accept what others with more experience say.. it's another thing entirely to say, "Hey, what do you think of this?" and then completely disregard the advice given (by mostly knowledgeable and experienced people) and say, "I'm going to do it this way (the opposite of what's advised) because I think it's better."

    We aren't trying to attack, we're trying to help you learn. I suggest you accept the help.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post

    I don't know why people can't be more mature and just state their opinion, the reasons for their opinions, and leave it at that. Why do there have to be so many personal attacks?

    I'd consider that to be a clue that maybe your ideas aren't that great and that maybe you really need to take a another look at your philosophies on things, the reason that it goes to "attacks" (and I use the term loosely) is that it almost seems that you are being deliberately obtuse. Also "Required" training is a checkmark, not a benchmark. There's more to carry than just gun handling and shooting and it seems that your lacking some of the mental aspects of the matter.

    You seem to have a lot of heart, and I'm glad you're seeking more knowledge, but you may be better off reading more, speaking less. Forums are great and all, but I suggest you actually turn to some actual honest to goodness books that should be the "required" reading for those wanting to carry.

    Check out:

    Thank God I Had a Gun
    The Concealed Carry Handgun Manual
    In The Gravest Extreme
    The Truth About Self Defense.
    On Combat

  6. #20
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    how about this shirt

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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Kinda like a bumper sticker that states"Driver never carries more than $10.000 in Bull semen,
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  8. #22
    Member Array tomtsr's Avatar
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    I'm not usually a fan of sarcasm and I don't want to be unkind so please don't take this as an attack, but there are some real flaws in your posts, unless you are the world's biggest joker.

    On one post you advocate firing a warning shot at someone who accuses you of carrying a toy gun and again to inform a crowd that you are armed and mean business. Here you are wanting to wear I'VE GOT A GUN shirts, and next you'll probably post pictures of your newly acquired CCW Badge.

    The idea of defensive carrying is, even in open carry, being prepared to defend yourself, family, or others in the event of imminent life threatening danger. Not to advertise to all around you that you have a gun. Drawing attention to oneself is never a good idea especially if you carry.

    Say you do have to defend yourself. I can see a DA proclaiming to a jury that you are some kind of vigilante just looking for a fight. Not because you open carry so much but you advocate advertising it. My mother used to tell me "it's not the clothes you wear, it's the way you wear your clothes." It is kind of like a Black Belt martial artist attempting to bait someone into an opportunity to defend themselves. If a DA can place in the mind of a juror you were looking for an opponent, you could be in real trouble.

    I personally do not open carry, that is my choice. My choice is also never wear gun related clothing. I don't want to do anything to draw attention to myself.

    My advice is to slow down, learn from the wisdom of the folks on this forum, and reevaluate why you want to carry a gun.

    I can tell you this, LEO academies all around the US would never consider someone as a candidate who's mindset is close to what you show. Not that you want to be an LEO. Just sayin...
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  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    Lima, for the record you are a patient and thoughtful soul. And Adric, the people after your last post have hopefully shown that they are not interested in flaming you or being mean-spirited. When you put up a theoretical post, expect feedback. In this case, the idea wasn't great so you got some not-so-approving feedback. Live and learn.

    And having been on other forums, I couldn't agree more that DC is the most courteous and thoughtful forum around. Hands down. Thanks, mods, for keeping it that way.
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtsr View Post
    The idea of defensive carrying is, even in open carry, being prepared to defend yourself, family, or others in the event of imminent life threatening danger. Not to advertise to all around you that you have a gun. Drawing attention to oneself is never a good idea especially if you carry.
    Well, obviously I don't open carry because it is not allowed in my state. But from everything I've read on this forum and other places on the internet, one of the 3 main reasons people want to do it is for deterrence. So, this idea just came to me and I thought I'd share it. Obviously I'm not the only person in the world who has thought the idea of deterrence by open carry or you wouldn't see all of the discussions about it.

    Say you do have to defend yourself. I can see a DA proclaiming to a jury that you are some kind of vigilante just looking for a fight. Not because you open carry so much but you advocate advertising it. My mother used to tell me "it's not the clothes you wear, it's the way you wear your clothes." It is kind of like a Black Belt martial artist attempting to bait someone into an opportunity to defend themselves. If a DA can place in the mind of a juror you were looking for an opponent, you could be in real trouble.
    I see. So you are interpreting my posts in a way that suggests I'm out looking for a fight? Well, I guess that is the difference between reading my post and knowing me personally. Everyone who knows me personally knows that I am a very kind and gentle person. In fact, I'm actually considered a geek for the most part. I run my own computer business and spend most of my time helping people with computer problems, not talking about guns and killing people. I even have an entire line of youtube videos devoted to computer training. Most people know me as a charitable and helping person. It just so happens that this forum is focused on guns, so that is the only part of my life that you hear about. It irritates me that my entire life is judged just by a few posts I made. However, after saying all of that, I will tell you that I have been the victim of violence many times in my life. That is one of the reasons I took up Aikido and got a permit to carry a gun. So far, I have not needed to use either of those.

    IN FACT - for all of those people who seem to think I'm out to shoot somebody, I'm going to give you a personal story.

    About 10 years ago, my wife was driving and got stuck behind a car in a parking lot that was going very slowly over speed bumps because it was lowered so much. They were going so slow that they actually rolled back off the speed bumps several times. We couldn't get around them for several minutes. When my wife got an opening,she peeled out around them to make a point. Well, after parking, this car pulled up behind us and blocked us in. The 4 very large, tattooed, african american men got out of the car, one wearing what appeared to be brass knuckles. They walked up punching their fists into their hands and telling me what they were about to do to me. The leader of the group came up cursing at me telling me all of the violence he was about to commit because of what my woman had done, and I have to take responsibility for my woman's actions. At that moment I had my hand around the back of my shirt holding the grip on my Glock 19. I actually thought I was going to need to use it. I would have probably been justified at that point by Texas law to use "threat of deadly force" which means I could have pulled it out. But I knew if I pulled it out, I might have to use it. so instead I ate some crow, and apologized to the man and promised him it would never happen again. After he thought about it for a moment, he said a few more choice words and they got back in their car and left.

    The point of the story is that if I had been the kind of person out to find a bad guy and shoot him, I would have taken the opportunity right there. Instead, I did everything possible to avoid it.

    However, I do read my local news every morning. I see at least one or two violent crimes in the Ft.Worth area nearly every day. Somebody was killed, somebody raped, somebody robbed, etc. And being that I've been a victim of violence many times, I feel it is only a matter of time. I want to be prepared. It isn't that I'm looking for a fight. I hope I've made that clear.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    By your definition, everybody "needs more training.
    I just want to throw this out there: Everybody needs more training. There is no such thing as enough training.

    To get back on topic, I believe a shirt stating you are carrying is a terrible idea. It totally defeats the concept of concealed carry...
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    I don't believe that drawing attention to one's self is a good defensive strategy.
    I agree completely.

    As a police officer it was always my feeling that when off duty you did not wear anything that said "I am a cop". No PBA caps or shirts, no " Feel safe , sleep with a cop tonight " shirts, ect. ect.

    I feel the same way about telling others I may be armed. If they do something stupid they will find out soon enough. My $.02.
    Last edited by Old School; June 9th, 2011 at 07:53 PM.
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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    If you think you're getting picked on on this forum try asking your questions or making some of the statements you have madeon other less friendly forums. Trust me, this site is civil and friendly.

    People who are responding to your posts aren't trying to make fun of you or harass you. They want to inform you and or disagree with what you have posted about. We all have a lot to learn. I was not a noob to guns when I joined the forum, but I have increased my knowledge of guns to a great degree from all that I've read here.

    Sometimes there are wingnuts who will start posting on forums like this who do have to be put in their place and booed off the stage. Some peo ple really don't have the proper mindset to carry a gun. Judging from your other posts and especially your reactions to being criticized on this thread you do need to reassess how and why you carry as well as your possible responses to a threat.
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  14. #28
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    You missed my point. I'm not interpreting it the you are looking for a fight. I never said that. What I did say was that a DA would attempt to sway a jury to believe that.

    You are exactly right, we don't know you, what you think, or what makes you tick. You are in computers, how many novices have you come across that had what appeared to be a total lack of training, and their practices were as loose as could be. Best practices were negated and appeared to be ignored. I know, I am in computers too and there are far too many. When someone does something that could harm their computer or event their identity, you tell them. Maybe we sometimes get a little zealous about how we do that because the stakes are so high. For that I am sorry.

    When your posts come across the way they do, we, those who have been around the block firearm wise, interpret it in a manner that can be completely different than that of which you may mean.

    Take for instance the accusation of a BG claiming you were carrying a toy gun and you firing a warning shot. I could care less what the BG thinks, he has already stabbed the girl, why would you care what he thinks? Firing a warning shot just gives him more time to harm your family member. The delay in firing a warning shot and refocusing your aim could cost the life of the other hostage.

    Sometimes you can be too gentle a guy. James Yeager, a noted trainer, and others tell you that you have to be ruthless in defense. In reference to the other post, there is a time to hold off and be a good witness. There is also a time to fire to defend. But seldom, if ever, a time for warning shots if humans are involved.

    I would love to interact with you offline if you want. PM me if you are interested.
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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    how about this shirt

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  16. #30
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    If you think you're getting picked on on this forum try asking your questions or making some of the statements you have madeon other less friendly forums. Trust me, this site is civil and friendly.
    I guess it is all relative. I am active on at least 10 other forums on the Internet related to computers, cars, etc. I have never experienced what I experience on here. Also - I have received PM's from 3 different users on this forum telling me that they too have been attacked for posting similar ideas and so they just gave up and don't post about those topics anymore. So I can't be alone, I'm just the only person who sticks around to defend myself. I would mention their names, but I assume they wanted to remain anonymous or they would not have sent me a PM.

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