How about a shirt that says you are carrying?

This is a discussion on How about a shirt that says you are carrying? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by adric22 As for the warning shot, let me be clear on something. I really can't see myself firing a warning shot. In ...

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Thread: How about a shirt that says you are carrying?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    As for the warning shot, let me be clear on something. I really can't see myself firing a warning shot. In fact, it isn't something I ever really considered until it was mentioned on here. But I do see that there are potential situations where Texas law grants me the right to use "threat of deadly force" but the person/people I want to see the threat aren't paying attention to me. The warning shot would make that very clear. Maybe it isn't my family. Maybe it is somebody i don't even know. Maybe the person getting beaten up is the one who started the whole thing. But it appears that if I don't intervene, that person may become severely injured or killed. In that position I would feel "threat of deadly" force is appropriate, but I would not feel justified in using "deadly force" unless they turned on me.
    But have you defined exactly what Texas law means when they mean "threat of deadly force"? Is it just pulling a gun or does that include firing a warning shot. I don't know Texas law in that regards so if you know, please tell me. In a lot of jurisdictions firing a shot (even if it's meant just as a warning) is still deadly force and it it wasn't warranted you are looking as the possibility of assault with a deadly weapon. It all depends on local laws. Do you know the interpretation of those laws?

    I just find it hard to believe that nobody here can possibly think of any scenario where you might need to get somebody's attention without killing them.
    How about, "STOP!" "GET BACK!" "STEP AWAY!" "NO!" "HEY!" "I'LL SHOOT!" There are a lot of ways to get someone's attention without firing a gun.

    But after I stopped to think about it, I realized there might be a time and place for it. Very rare, certainly. But to say that there never could possibly exist a scenario where it would be appropriate would be foolish.
    Here's a "copy/paste" of what I said in the "warning shots" thread and I think it applies here..

    Obviously there are a vast number of people who do not agree with the concept of a warning shot. Can we definitely say what we would do in all scenarios, ever, for all time? No.. because the possibilities are infinite and so are our abilities to respond.

    BUT it is NOT a bad thing to set your mind to rule OUT a possibility that 99 times out of 100 is going to be a bad option.

    I would hope that everyone here would say "Never ever ever" to plenty of scenarios put before them but when push comes to hard shove the impossible can become possible. Does that change the principle or "never!"? Of course not. It simply changes the situation.

    Having the mindset of "I'll never do this" keeps your options limited which, in a life-threatening situation IS good when it comes to gunfights. Sure, in fighting in general you want lots of options but in gunfights it's pretty simple: shoot the bad guy or don't shoot the bad guy. The fewer options you choose to embrace the less you will have to think about "Hmm, should I do this or this or this or this or maybe this or well, there's that, too." Sure, there could be lots of other options.. shooting the chandelier cord and dropping it on the bad guy's head, or whatever.. but for most of us, most of the time we consciously limit ourselves to shoot the bad guy or don't shoot the bad guy because it's the safest bed that conserves the most ammo and keeps us on target.

    As for warning shots, most of us have a "never" mindset. It takes out the guess work of "hmmm... would a warning shot work or be applicable here" where, in the vast majority of cases it will not and could actually be illegal and get you in far more trouble than it's worth. That "never" mindset saves us from possibly choosing option C when it is a bad option. Does that mean option C will NEVER EVER EVER EVER present itself. Not necessarily but I can pretty safely say that it probably never will. Which means it's a moot point.

    The fact of the matter is that options abound. In a gun fight we could all decide to stand stock still and scream at the top of our lungs while we fire shots straight up into the air. We could decide to jump on one foot and recite the Gettysburg address, punctuating each sentence with a shot into the ground. We have those options and we can do whatever we want. But that doesn't make those smart or good options and so we don't sit there and think, "Hmm, when would be it be applicable for me to stand straight and scream at the top of my lungs while firing my gun in the air?" It's not an option because most of the time it would be a bad option and don't want to have to reap those consequences. Can you say with certainty that it would NEVER EVER BE an option? Hey, nothing's impossible right?

    Stoically defending your opinion that you would fire a warning shot does not make it any more of a valid option. It doesn't make it any less of an option either. What I believe most of us find disturbing is that one would so readily embrace it as a viable option when it clearly is not a vast majority of the time. It means one might choose it as an option at the wrong time and end up reaping the consequences (whatever those may be) and forcing others to live with your consequences as well.

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  3. #47
    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Well if you REALLY want them to know you're carrying why not this?

    That hurt my eyes,lol
    Pain is the best teacher,but nobody wants to go to his class.


    When the past smothers the present, there is only desperation. When the future absorbs the present, life stands still. In either case a decision must be made because you only live now and you are only what you are now.

  4. #48
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Going back to the OP - it's actually really quite simple.

    Posturing works, sometimes.

    Other times, it can be less than desirable, or even have the opposite effect.

    While I do not consider open-carry "posturing," I do believe that the OP overlaps into the debate that we as defensive firearms users often fall into - as to whether or not a potential aggressor seeing you with a gun makes you less of a target, or more. As hayzor said,

    Quote Originally Posted by hayzor View Post
    Sounds like it is back to the old question of concealed vs open carry. Many on this forum are adamantly against open carry and others practice it regularly.
    Same old same old.
    I'm inclined to agree with him, that this seems to go back to that old argument.

    And for the record, my personal belief is that it can go both ways, and that it just depends on the particulars of the situation: unique variables which cannot be counted on to stack in the favor of any side of the argument.

    Many of us choose to display our lifestyles via our clothing.

    Some of us specifically try not to: but even so, there are going to be tells to the observant.

  5. #49
    Member Array redstgunnut's Avatar
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    Warning shots for someone in the act of a violent crime? Carrying a concealed weapon without a round chambered? Using a t-shirt for deterrence?

    Ok, dude, you deserve the dogpile.

    And if you do decide to use that warning shot strategy (apparently the t-shirt warning failed) then don't forget to chamber a round first, right?

    Good grief.
    MotorCityGun likes this.

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Can't say it any better than the above quote from post #6. In reading your profile I see you claim to be 35 years old. I'd have guessed much much younger.
    I am 22 years old and got my cpl at 21. My ideas of self defense fall inline with the thoughts of most of the members of this forum. I am always looking to improve my skills with my firearm by shooting once a week and increase my knowledge of self defense. I don't think age is really a good way to classify someone's opinion.

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array Skeeter64's Avatar
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    Personally, I'm a big fan of not advertising the fact that I am carrying.

  8. #52
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    For the OP's original question: No I don't think I would advertise the fact I was carrying. Maybe exceptions would be the gun range, gun show are something like that but not for everyday wear.

  9. #53
    Senior Member Array RemMod597's Avatar
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    Adric22, I seriously hope we won't soon be reading about you in the obits.
    Your own comments provide enough reason for concern.


    The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.

  10. #54
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    Holy Cow, this is getting good. I can't believe I missed this one.



    IBTL
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  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I guess it is all relative...

    - I have received PM's from 3 different users on this forum telling me that they too have been attacked for posting similar ideas and so they just gave up and don't post about those topics anymore. So I can't be alone,
    I suppose it would depend on which members are sending the PM's whether is relative, or not.

    And no, I don't want to know who they are... but I think a lot of folks here can guess with some degree of accuracy based on several of the posts I've read around here lately.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Perhaps the attacking with a bat wasn't a good example. The guy(s) breaking into my house at night most likely know we are home, and probably intent to kill us before taking all of our stuff. They probably have weapons, but there will be no time to really know for sure what they are armed with.

    As for the warning shot, let me be clear on something. I really can't see myself firing a warning shot. In fact, it isn't something I ever really considered until it was mentioned on here. But I do see that there are potential situations where Texas law grants me the right to use "threat of deadly force" but the person/people I want to see the threat aren't paying attention to me. The warning shot would make that very clear. Maybe it isn't my family. Maybe it is somebody i don't even know. Maybe the person getting beaten up is the one who started the whole thing. But it appears that if I don't intervene, that person may become severely injured or killed. In that position I would feel "threat of deadly" force is appropriate, but I would not feel justified in using "deadly force" unless they turned on me.

    I just find it hard to believe that nobody here can possibly think of any scenario where you might need to get somebody's attention without killing them.
    Perhaps this could be achieved via verbal commands rather than stray rounds?

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    And let me make it abundantly clear. If I feel my life is in danger, I won't be firing warning shots. Everybody here acts like I'm preaching that warning shots are the way to go and it is a way of life or something and you need to convert to my side. I'm not even the one who started the thread about warning shots. I'd never even considered it before today. But after I stopped to think about it, I realized there might be a time and place for it. Very rare, certainly. But to say that there never could possibly exist a scenario where it would be appropriate would be foolish.
    If you do not feel your life is in danger, there is no reason to fire ANY shots. Lethal force is only justified in response to an imminent lethal threat.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I guess it is all relative. I am active on at least 10 other forums on the Internet related to computers, cars, etc. I have never experienced what I experience on here. Also - I have received PM's from 3 different users on this forum telling me that they too have been attacked for posting similar ideas and so they just gave up and don't post about those topics anymore. So I can't be alone, I'm just the only person who sticks around to defend myself. I would mention their names, but I assume they wanted to remain anonymous or they would not have sent me a PM.
    You have received a lot of valid feedback from many well trained and highly experienced members here. It appears to me, however, that you are so entrenched in your position that you are not willing to actually consider what is being said. It comes off as "I'm right, this is the only way, and I am not interested in any contrary opinions."

    That might not be your intent, but that is how it comes across, IMHO.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  14. #58
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    WOW!!! Such a long discussion!! Anyways I am too not in favor of advertising that I have a gun. It's great that I didn't missed it completely. Now wish to know more about you guys. Will go through the profiles.
    Flint

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Well if you REALLY want them to know you're carrying why not this?

    That's just wrong!......
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Good advice in this thread for sure and I can only add my own personal opinion on the subject which is; concealment and the element of surprise IS NOT over rated in a defensive situation. The deterrent for the scum of the earth should come from the way you carry yourself and your level of self awareness regarding your surroundings and its contents. The thugs choose their victims carefully in most cases. Key would be, don't present yourself as a victim, and if one decides it’s you today, have your Glock ready to do its part, that includes having a round ready to go down range if need be.

    Not even trying to pile on here just thought I’d offer some friendly advice. As a fellow concealed carry citizen, I’d hate to hear how one of our members was injured or worse due to a lack of confidence in their weapon, or overconfidence in their ability to prepare their weapon for an attack at that critical moment.

    Take care!
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

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