Criminal Mind / Deterrence - Page 2

Criminal Mind / Deterrence

This is a discussion on Criminal Mind / Deterrence within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; 40% of criminals were under the influence of drugs or alcohol during commission of their crimes. Many of these folks likely weren't deterred by the ...

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Thread: Criminal Mind / Deterrence

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    40% of criminals were under the influence of drugs or alcohol during commission of their crimes. Many of these folks likely weren't deterred by the idea that they may have been shot for their actions........
    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
    Ronald Reagan


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Very tough statistics to find but, far easier stats to research are the number of Security Guards that have been relieved of their carry firearms, shot and injured or killed with their own weapons OR they were "taken out first" to eliminate them as a possible/likely armed deterrent.
    And there be no shortage of those reported incidents, encounters, and scenarios.
    I'll certainly agree with this. But as another person pointed out about the LEOs, the situation is a bit different. For example, if you are a security guard working at a bank, and there is a person who wants to rob that bank, you are a target because you are in their way. Or if you wanted to steal a gun from somebody and you knew that there was a security guard at the bank, you would know where to find him when you are ready to take his weapon. This is likely to put you at higher risk than a random citizen walking through the mall or the park where the only criminals you will encounter are those who just happen to be there by chance.

    As others have pointed out, I would love to see some statistics on open carry such as percentage of times they have been attacked or needed to use their weapon compared to concealed carry or a normal person who doesn't carry at all. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any study or statistics on the matter. Yes, there are a few stories out there of OC being attacked for their gun, I've read them. But hearing a story or two isn't a statistic, it just proves that it does happen. I will agree beyond the shadow of a doubt that what people say about making a person a target because of their gun does in fact happen. But in order to make a case about that, we need to know how often it happens.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Some day you may provide us with a Topic,"I had my gun stolen from me at gun point".
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  4. #19
    Member Array Carrie's Avatar
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    I believe that people should be allowed to open carry so that they can decide for themselves if they are comfortable with it. My husband open carries occassionally and it has drawn a lot of positive attention and to our knowledge no negative attention. I personally prefer to carry concealed because I am a woman and barely 5 ft tall, usually with 2 very small children in tow and I think that it may make me a more likely target for someone to try and take it.
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Ladies and Gentlemen...

    Wow... I see this is quite the learned crowd. Great response's. IMO... Open carry like everything else must be kept in perspective. A person open carrying with the intent of intimidating others may find himself in a confrontation. Another (like myself) carrying openly because it's just more comfortable would be less likely to get into a confrontation. Open carry is like anything else firearms related a personal choice... I'd hope based on a person's needs.

    Bad guys IME run the spectrum from decent folks in an unfortunate situation to psychotic sociopaths... Somewhere in the middle you find the professional criminal. Being a criminal is their job. They study, and work at getting better at their chosen profession... just like everyone else. Unless their criminal specialty requires the use of violence, or the threat of violence... Firearms are poison for them. Possesion makes what ever they do a violen felony... and more jail time if they get caught. Lower on the criminal food chain is the opertunistic criminal. This in my opinion is the danger to the open carrier. They rarely plan their crime, or even give it much thought before they strike. They tend to be violent.

    As another astute pointed out... It's a grab bag... and you may not know which one your'r gonna get.

  6. #21
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    It's just as likely the Honda Accord keys in your hand or the Rolex that makes you a target too. Who can really say what gets draws the focus.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    The basis on which a potential victim is selected is probably as diverse as the criminals doing the selecting. There are probably some selection criteria that are more prevalent than others and some more specific to a particular victim.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Basically its a grab bag, you don't know what you are going to get until you got it.
    Words of wisdom to live by from someone who has been there and survived.

    And what you get could be far more than you bargained for.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

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  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    The basis on which a potential victim is selected is probably as diverse as the criminals doing the selecting.

    thats as close as we are going to get. who, what , when & where and why can be mysteries.

    need 'fix' &, see a pack of butts on a car seat...and perhaps take the car also cause he missed his bus. usually he takes the bus to the mall and has his choice of a ride home; or perhaps one of his ladies has a favorite color and thats why he took the red honda rather than the better equipped and newer blue one next to it. even having worked with them and on their turf for 40 odd years it can still be a mystery what triggered 'that' dude 'that' day to do 'that'.
    some gangs need blood drawn to be the block captain...dead to another to be the zipper leader ( zip code king).
    if you wish to gamble your life that you can crawl inside his mind and play 'his' game...which one of you is the real psycho?

    all the chatter re what can draw attention to yourself is good and right. how to avoid is similar. and it works for the many. but how can you spot the 'few'? not proper to go all out on all cause of the few--just know they exist and if things begin to go wrong ( ua, if your being jacked, its already wrong...but) they will go wrong fast and you best be able to act ( i did say 'act'....not react) faster yet.
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Fortunately, aspirations for an elevated organizational status/position and an increased penchant for violence to achieve them does not necessarily mean a concomitant increase in attributes or abilities to fulfill them.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    determination often makes up for know how. and as they have little care to how messy their attempt is, how many uninvolved catch stray lead is for them to laugh off--till its one of their nephews or aunts; than its vendetta. noticeable uptic in strategy following the return of vets (GW 1 and GW 2). good to see a sharing of knowledge, sad that is in such a manner.
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    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  12. #27
    RKM
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    I think open carry will convince most criminals that you're not worth attacking. Though, it doesn't always work. Maybe the fact that you're open carrying makes you a target. There are criminals who are indeed not afraid of a weapon. They may rob you because they know you're carrying. But... MOST of the time, open carry will most likely deter a criminal. I still prefer to conceal carry, because even the brave BG's who would rob an OC'er, you still have an element of surprise. They won't be planning that you have a weapon, So they won't be taking the extra steps they would had they planned out an attack on an OC'er. Of couse whether or not they're on drugs always comes into play. I wish I could put all of what I said into better words, but I'm tired right now.

    And as far as police being attacked despite their weapons, I think that mostly it's because criminals assume a cop won't shoot. Police don't want to have to shoot, not only because of the psychological issues of shooting/killing somebody, but the paper work and the time in court afterwards. It's be proven before, criminals are far more afraid of an armed citizen then the police. Of course citizens are subject to the time in court just as police, but people are more vigilant (in a good way) than police.

    Fact is, there are many different types of criminals. They have different personalities and some may takes risks other wouldn't. You don't know who you'll be attacked by. You may get attacked even if you're open carrying an M4A1. Or a criminal may scared off just by the way you carry yourself. You just don't know.

  13. #28
    Member Array bcvojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Law Enforcement officers have weapons on their hips, partners, backup.... and they are still shot at, attacked, dragged to the ground and attempts made to disarm them. I think it is a deterrent to a point, but just by being aware you can avoid confrontations instead of using it as a badge of courage. Discretion and surprise are more of an advantage than you boldly walking down the street with your six gun on and a false sense of security.
    True, but criminals often fight/attack cops because they are in a situation that they don't want to be in (traffic stop, stopped while carrying drugs, stopped while having outstanding warrants) and don't want to go back to jail. They know the cop is about to take them to jail, and it's doubly bad if this is going to be their 3rd strike felony. Conversely, Joe Citizen is not looking to arrest them and take them to jail. They have the option of walking the other way and choosing a different victim, if you look like your not an easy target.
    Somewhere in the Pacific NW

  14. #29
    Ex Member Array William Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Being a scrawny red-hair kid, I had more than a few bullies want to impress someone by whipping my rear. A few did, but my goal was to make sure it wasn't worth the effort to do it a second time. I always achieved that goal.

    Maybe someone out there can do some definitive research and present some stats of, say in the last five years, the number of OCers who have had their firearms taken away (LEOs not included as they generally insert themselves into the situation) versus the number of CCers who've been robbed and lost their firearms. Maybe that would show if OCing was really the danger some suppose. I don't recall any reports of OCers being robbered, but do recallreports of CCers losing their guns.

    So....
    I know of exactly ONE incident of someone getting their gun snatched while open carrying. The link is dead, or I'd provide it, but a man in Scranton, PA, had his gun snatched while in a bar by another bar patron. Which is why, while I support open carry, I won't do it in an atmosphere like a bar or nightclub. I avoid them, anyway, because of drunk morons who get superpowers from alcohol.

    Bravo to the OP. I was bullied severely until the 7th grade, at which point I broke the nose and jaw of one of my bullies with a lunch tray. I'm the reason my school switched from metal lunch trays to styrofoam.

    Afterwards, my parents dropped the "turn the other cheek" crap, and my dad put me in a dojo, bought a home gym, and taught me what he learned in Vietnam.

  15. #30
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    If your carry gun has a loaded chamber indicator, depending on your holster an alert criminal might well be able to determine that you're carrying a gun that needs to be manipulated to use (i.e. has an empty chamber). Not much deterrent there.....
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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