If it is legal, why the hassle?

This is a discussion on If it is legal, why the hassle? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We have steadily been losing our 2A rights for a long time, now. Society is pounding "guns are bad" into its children's heads for decades. ...

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Thread: If it is legal, why the hassle?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    We have steadily been losing our 2A rights for a long time, now. Society is pounding "guns are bad" into its children's heads for decades. The pro CC only crowd is feeding this hostility towards firearms and furthering oppression against the citizens 2A rights. Instead of embracing OC, people are using excuses like "it's not tactically sound", or "LEO will have to waste their resources on MWAG calls". These are nothing more than excuses, and many many people on this forum support this nonsense.

    When the pro-gun crowd is against our 2A rights, you can only expect the worst to happen with the rest of society.
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  3. #32
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    We have steadily been losing our 2A rights for a long time, now. Society is pounding "guns are bad" into its children's heads for decades. The pro CC only crowd is feeding this hostility towards firearms and furthering oppression against the citizens 2A rights. Instead of embracing OC, people are using excuses like "it's not tactically sound", or "LEO will have to waste their resources on MWAG calls". These are nothing more than excuses, and many many people on this forum support this nonsense.

    When the pro-gun crowd is against our 2A rights, you can only expect the worst to happen with the rest of society.
    What rights have we been losing? I see more gun sales, more gun owners, and more gun permits issued today than at any other time in my memory. I'll admit that there is a group of people who are against guns and would like to make them all illegal, but from the legislation that states like Arizona are passing, it doesn't appear that they are making any inroads.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Agreed,

    There has been more progress regarding guns in the past decade than there has been lost. Heck even WI is considering concealed carry. Washington DC has had the Heller Decision, and Chicago has had its hand spanked by the courts.

    Is it the way everyone wants it yet as far as the 2A goes, no, but then again 100+ years ago it wasn't either. Some sherrifs made you check your guns when you came riding into town on your horse. When you're in public things will never be exactly like everyone likes. If OC is legal and practiced regularly nationwide you will still have folks that aren't happy. They will be the ones who don't like guns or the people with them.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mel View Post
    If it is legal [to OC] why do the law enforcement officers in the cities and states actively suppress the rights of the individual knowing full well that they are in violation of the laws of their state?
    ...Because the general public and LE have been so anti-gun indoctrinated for so long that most are freighted of guns and those who know how to use them. Only proper education will change this. It just may make more sense to educate our children on proper and safe gun handling than prophylactic use. But alas, again this is confirmed: "With most people education and common sense are inversely proportional."
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  6. #35
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    All I know about cammo and deer urine is it clears out the congested lines a Wally World.

    As for being arrested for "disturbing the peace" for being a non-threatening, law-abiding citizen, now there's a case for the ambulance chasers to feed upon.
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  7. #36
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    We have steadily been losing our 2A rights for a long time, now. Society is pounding "guns are bad" into its children's heads for decades. The pro CC only crowd is feeding this hostility towards firearms and furthering oppression against the citizens 2A rights. Instead of embracing OC, people are using excuses like "it's not tactically sound", or "LEO will have to waste their resources on MWAG calls". These are nothing more than excuses, and many many people on this forum support this nonsense.

    When the pro-gun crowd is against our 2A rights, you can only expect the worst to happen with the rest of society.
    I don't know that I'm losing my rights. I'm choosing not to be hassled by those too stupid to understand the difference between criminal and law abiding activities. My time is worth something after all. I care more about wasting my time and resources than I do of said resources for LEOs should I choose to OC.

  8. #37
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snatale42 View Post
    THAT is why the people that do OC get hassled! It's also the reason (usually) The police screw with people, to discourage it.
    You're right. If more people open carried, then open carry would be more accepted, but I have neither the time nor energy to be a pioneer for the cause. I'm sorry. Concealed carry is just so much more forgiving. If you choose to open carry, you have to know every law and statute in every little podunk town and village in the state that you are carrying in. If you don't, you can quickly find yourself on the wrong side of the law. Even when you think that you are right, your interpretation of the law and the court's interpretation of the law may differ. With concealed carry, as long as nobody sees the gun, all this stuff never comes up. Even if you are carrying somewhere that you shouldn't, you stand a better chance of emerging unscathed. With open carry, if you are in violation of a law or ordinance, you are pretty much dead in the water.

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    That's true. But until open carry is as commonplace as people driving cars, the person who is open carrying is still going to attract attention. I understand your opinion and I don't necessarily disagree with you. There are lots of things that police do that I don't agree with (pretty much ignoring speed limits being one of them).
    It used to be..... at least where I lived... people carried all of the time, no big deal. The 1968Gun Act changed the environment totally.
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  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    We're getting a stronger grip (like GI-Joe Kung-Fu grip) on our 2A rights at the State level, but getting pushed closer and closer to the balancing point at the Federal level.

    One signature away from an ugly scene in all 50 states.
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  11. #40
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mel View Post
    I live in Minnesota and while open carry is legal with your permit, I don't see it very much. My question to all of you is this:

    There are only 7 states that don't allow open carry, and there are a mess of them that will allow it if you have a CCW permit. If it is legal why do the law enforcement officers in the cities and states actively suppress the rights of the individual knowing full well that they are in violation of the laws of their state?


    This is very disturbing. I was always taught that if I follow the law I don't have to worry. I was also taught that ignorance of the law is not an excuse.
    They're not suppressing your right to carry, they're asking you questions. They're not violating any laws, they're more than likely responding to a call about a "man with a gun." Some people videotape these encounters in the hopes the LEO will go beyond his duties and actively harass the carrier, doesn't always happen though. In fact a recently posted video showed the LEO being very courteous and open with the carrier.

    You have to remember, even though it's legal to open carry people aren't used to seeing firearms on citizens except for LEOs. So they react and call 911, which results in the scenario you describe.

  12. #41
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    Its also legal to parade around in your Speedo. Its your right, why don't you do that?

    But then again, the LEO's might abuse their authority and ask you about your choice of dress.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #42
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    God, it's tough being a cop. I can honestly say that I've never had a bad encounter with a law enforcement officer (and I've had a few), probably because I appreciate the ******** job that they have. On the one hand, you have a 2nd amendment follower hellbent on exercising his right to open carry. On the other hand, you have the concerned citizen calling 911 reporting "THERE'S A MAN WITH A GUN IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND MY KIDS ARE PLAYING OUTSIDE AND I'M SCARED!!!!!!!!" or whatever...

    So, you stop the guy and ask a few questions and he immediately gets his knickers in a knot and you wonder why you are putting up with all this crap for $42,000 a year..and then out of the blue a citizen says.."Thanks officer. I really appreciate the job you do."

    And you get up tomorrow and do it again.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highvoltage View Post
    They're not suppressing your right to carry, they're asking you questions. They're not violating any laws, they're more than likely responding to a call about a "man with a gun." Some people videotape these encounters in the hopes the LEO will go beyond his duties and actively harass the carrier, doesn't always happen though. In fact a recently posted video showed the LEO being very courteous and open with the carrier.

    You have to remember, even though it's legal to open carry people aren't used to seeing firearms on citizens except for LEOs. So they react and call 911, which results in the scenario you describe.
    To much kool aid. They have NO right or business detaining anyone if they are not doing anything illegal. Put in perspective if they get a call because people feel threatened because a guy is walking down the street with a Koran and turban, the caller is told it is his right to do so. Unless he is actually in the act of following the dictates of his religion and killing infidels. It is inappropriate for the police to act on peoples irrational unfounded fear, it is an abuse of authority and public trust when they perpetuate the irrational fear and abuse citizens for exercising their civil rights. Justify it anyway you want but when you are unlawfully detained, have a gun pointed at you, forced onto your knees have your property taken from that is harassment and abuse. The officer should be going to jail for civil rights violations and assault with a deadly weapon.

    It is apparent that the PD does not like OC and are using their position to impose their personal agenda rather than do the right thing and enforce the law support our rights. All that does in my eyes is diminish my respect for that particular department.
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Put in perspective if they get a call because people feel threatened because a guy is walking down the street with a Koran and turban, the caller is told it is his right to do so. Unless he is actually in the act of following the dictates of his religion and killing infidels. It is inappropriate for the police to act on peoples irrational unfounded fear, it is an abuse of authority and public trust when they perpetuate the irrational fear and abuse citizens for exercising their civil rights.
    Does that mean it is irrational for any CHL holder to defend him/herself before they are actually injured or killed by anothers use of deadly force? Or is it irrational for the CHL holder to take precautions and at times react to a threat whether real or perceived before being injured or killed.
    Last edited by farronwolf; July 14th, 2011 at 10:39 AM.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  16. #45
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    To much kool aid. They have NO right or business detaining anyone if they are not doing anything illegal......
    The OP says OC with a permit. Responding officer only establishes legality after checking the permit.

    Besides, I don't drink Kool-Aid.
    Last edited by highvoltage; July 14th, 2011 at 09:05 PM.
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