If it is legal, why the hassle?

This is a discussion on If it is legal, why the hassle? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by highvoltage Original post never mentions anything about continued dialogue after establishing that the carrier was in his legal right to open carry. ...

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Thread: If it is legal, why the hassle?

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highvoltage View Post
    Original post never mentions anything about continued dialogue after establishing that the carrier was in his legal right to open carry. The original post immediately suggests that any stop of a person open carrying is a suppression of rights, which it is not. Establishing legality is not a suppression of rights, once legality has been established then further harassment is.
    If I interpret you meaning to say "Establishing legality is not a suppression of rights, once legality has been established then further (unwanted interrogation is )harassment. We are on the same page, I never meant to imply that OC will not get you unwanted attention it will eventually but it is on the officer to conduct himself professionally within the bounds of the law. It is on us to be civil and co operative as the law requires.

    That said in most states including mine OC does not require a permit. In that case a stop simply because someone is OCing is no more appropriate than stopping someone because they are wearing a turban and carrying a Koran.
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  3. #62
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    If I interpret you meaning to say "Establishing legality is not a suppression of rights, once legality has been established then further (unwanted interrogation is )harassment. We are on the same page, I never meant to imply that OC will not get you unwanted attention it will eventually but it is on the officer to conduct himself professionally within the bounds of the law. It is on us to be civil and co operative as the law requires.
    I believe we're in agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    That said in most states including mine OC does not require a permit. In that case a stop simply because someone is OCing is no more appropriate than stopping someone because they are wearing a turban and carrying a Koran.
    That would be off-topic since the OP is clearly talking about OC with a permit.

  4. #63
    Member Array mel's Avatar
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    Wow, I have to say that I again am impressed by the dialogue pertaining to my original post. The MWAG situation seems to be an issue for a lot of people that are ignorant of the laws in a given state. I can understand that many people have been conditioned to fear weapons of just about any sort. When I originally posted it was partly based on the issues in Wisconsin and Philadelphia, and was also based on my trip to Denver. We, as gun owners have rights, defined by the Constitution of the United States, and the prevailing laws in the states we live in. My hope is that more of us that carry concealed and those that choose to carry open will continue to try to educate people through our law abiding actions, and deeds as well as through level headed discussion. We live in the greatest country in the world, and we must maintain our freedom, because if we don't exercise it, it will be lost for future generations.

  5. #64
    Member Array Overtaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    Leonard Embody open carried in Brentwood. Where did that get him?
    You left out the relevant detail that he was carrying a slinged AK-47 pistol and (on a separate occasion) an Army/Navy revolver in his hand. Both actions were legal and yet the state revoked his permit. I much prefer a government of laws and not of men.

    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    If you choose to open carry, you have to know every law and statute in every little podunk town and village in the state that you are carrying in. If you don't, you can quickly find yourself on the wrong side of the law.
    The only carry law not uniform in the State of Tennessee is local parks.

  6. #65
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    If I'm thinking of the same case, I'm pretty sure that Embody's actions were only they catalyst that started the inquiry into his mental health. His mental status is what got his permit revoked.
    Last edited by SIXTO; July 20th, 2011 at 07:05 PM.
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  7. #66
    Senior Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
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    It`s REAL Plain and SIMPLE,Cops do NOT like to see GUNS exposed PERIOD. They get a call of a MWAG and they have to respond to check it out. That takes time and manpower which equals MONEY,time lost,etc. Keep your weapon concealed and you won`t have a problem unless you want to be a poster child for the looney left. If you want to make a statement by carrying OC then I wish you luck with the Lawyers Billable Hours to Defend your case. Always Carry,Never Tell!.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Anglo View Post
    It`s REAL Plain and SIMPLE,Cops do NOT like to see GUNS exposed PERIOD. They get a call of a MWAG and they have to respond to check it out. That takes time and manpower which equals MONEY,time lost,etc. Keep your weapon concealed and you won`t have a problem unless you want to be a poster child for the looney left. If you want to make a statement by carrying OC then I wish you luck with the Lawyers Billable Hours to Defend your case. Always Carry,Never Tell!.
    Depends on your state and the department your dealing with. Virginia is very gun friendly for the most part. I OC almost daily in the presence of VA State Police, Henrico Co. PD, Henrico Co. Sheriff Depart. and the City of Richmond PD. Never had a problem with any of them. Only thing that has ever been said, was to have several ask what make and model I was carrying and caliber.
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  9. #68
    New Member Array Lothar5's Avatar
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    can swimming upstream eventually change the current?

    I have been cruising the forums here for awhile and decided perhaps its time I registered in order to participate.

    I have been a handgun owner for a little over a year and will be taking my carry class in the next few weeks. I am kind of a research nut and always do a lot of reading in preparation for a major purchase or other decision.

    I am currently kind of on the fence regarding open carry vs concealed carry. I really would MUCH rather carry openly, if only for comfort and convenience. There have been some great points made both for and against open carry. I guess my feelings are similar to when I decided to get my ears pierced back in high school. I knew back then that there were people that would make assumptions about me just because I am a man and wear earrings in both ears. I had to decide if I wanted those people to have that much influence on me. In deciding to go ahead with wearing the jewelery, I had to accept that people may whisper, giggle, assume, point, etc. I also had to accept that my behavior would either reinforce the stereotype or contradict it.

    My son has always had a predilection for what I consider to be goofy hairstyles and wardrobe decisions. I kind of figured if you can't have dumb-looking hair when you're thirteen, when CAN you do it, right? So when hairstyle and wardrobe decisions were to be made, I would encourage him to make his own decision, knowing that if you look like someone that people expect to cause trouble, you can't be offended when people make that assumption about you. I also told him that he would have to go above and beyond to counteract the stereotypes if he hoped to change peoples minds. He has done an excellent job of always being polite, kind, honest, and hardworking and I can think of several instances of people that have judged him based on his appearance and then apologized to him after getting to know him.

    I am now over 40 years old and I honestly can't remember the last time someone looked at me funny because both my ears are pierced three times. Maybe I've been part of a movement to make this socially acceptable? If that's true then is it possible that when society sees more respectable, responsible, polite and law-abiding people carrying guns for self-defense, they will someday come to realize that the problem doesn't have to do with the number or type of guns available, but with the underlying reasons that people resort to crime and violence? I hope so.

    I am prepared for some uncomfortable and frustrating times when carrying openly, but I guess I feel like maybe I can be part of the solution.

    Kind of windy, I know. Just hoping to draw some correlations to shift in society's perceptions.

  10. #69
    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    Depends on the LEO. It may be legal, and they might know it's legal, but they may not like it and just want to make it as hard on you as they can. The state legislatures are the ones that pass these laws, and the court system deals with them when they are broken, but the LEO on the street is the one who has to deal with the guns. Many try to discourage it., legal or not. And just as a side note, do you know how many innocent people have been sent to prison when they did not break any laws. It is many.
    NONAME762 likes this.
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  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xader View Post
    I question this as well. IF open carry is legal, then by definition, they are all carrying ​legally. The only way to know is to acknowledge their existence.



    It's a simply matter of risk vs reward.
    Target A has a visible gun. Risk is getting shot.
    Target B is not visibly armed. Risk is minimal.
    What he said.
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  12. #71
    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    Cool

    To each his own. For me I've had my CC since around October 1986. Until OC became legal in my state (WA) I only OCed at the gravel pits and other assorted improvised 'Range's' where I did most of my plinking and target practice. In the past 5 years I've open carried just once and that was 2 or 3 years ago.

    Knowing myself better than anyone else might know me I can say this. I am loud enough without calling attention to myself by carrying a gun where God and everyone else on my part of the planet can see it. Because of this I pretty much flat out refuse to OC. I prefer to choose my own battles on my turf and in my time frame. There are elements to society that preclude my propensity to do my own thing without making my business their business. That is why I do not OC.

    OTOH I have great Respect for those that OC especially those armed with the 'cites' and case law needed when dealing with LEOs.

    That is why I subscribe to the notion always carry, never tell. YMMV.
    Last edited by NONAME762; April 24th, 2013 at 06:06 PM. Reason: Forgot sumpin MAJOR+ 1 booboo.
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  13. #72
    Member Array BigPony's Avatar
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    I would just be afraid too oc tbh. I see a lot of videos on youtube where ppl doing OC still get arrested, even when they have been within the law. OC is legal in my state but I have never seen anyone OC'ing ever here so I am happy just keeping it concealed.

  14. #73
    Senior Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backnblack View Post
    I believe its due to the fact that some LEO's just don't know the law on this...
    The ones that stop people PRETEND they don't know the law. They are often testosterone challenged and see it as you encroaching on 'their' territory, carrying a gun makes them feel special. Now some might think that they are afraid of gun carriers, but note they often start out calm and try to get the OC-er riled up so they can slap on a charge. Cops are NOT afraid of them.

    Also, they have ONE purpose and that is to try and find a reason to arrest the person they've stopped. If they see someone carrying something unusual legal or not, they figure they can dig around and find a reason to make the person take the ride downtown.

    They pretend they know (or don't know) the law just to allow plausible deniability on the stop. "Oh I thought it wasn't legal - it is, oh, sorry". Meanwhile they'll try to illegally detain you, disarm you, point your firearm at you while trying to unload it (and sometimes cause a negligent discharge).

    It's better and a lot less dangerous than tackling a REAL criminal or real crime.
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  15. #74
    Member Array lifeforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backnblack View Post
    I believe its due to the fact that some LEO's just don't know the law on this...
    You are correct, a whole lot of LEO's don't know the laws that they paid to enforce.

  16. #75
    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    I can't tell you the number of times I've heard people both in TX and other states that believe that OC is legal without any kind of permit. In actuality, if it's a handgun its a guaranteed trip to jail for UCW and a rifle or shotgun is legally in limbo but is also a tremendous way to get yourself shot by a LEO in a city (has happened more than a few times). There are currently two bills in the state legislature that would allow it for CHL holders, both are stalled in committee limbo and have practically no chance of passing, or even coming up for a vote.

    Personally, I don't really care all that much since I would never practice OC except on rural private property which is already legal. In general, I don't like the concept of OC, especially in urban areas, out in the sticks I think it would probably be alright with most people. As long as they keep the requirement of having a CHL and don't lower the CHL training requirements like they are considering (from 10 to 4 hours training) I don't foresee any major problems.

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