Not sure how I feel about this
This is a discussion on Not sure how I feel about this within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well the short version is someone MWAG'ed me, I can't prove it but I know (I KNOW) it was the people that live on the ...
June 19th, 2011 11:15 PM
Not sure how I feel about this
Well the short version is someone MWAG'ed me, I can't prove it but I know (I KNOW) it was the people that live on the first floor that are dealing drugs. The cop was pretty much professional and I all I can really complain about is the little "lecture" I got (about how I'm making his job harder because "you're flashing your gun around" (mind you it NEVER left the holster) and how if I need to carry a gun I should move to where I feel safer (told him I couldn't afford to move).
the longer version will have to wait until I have a little more time to type and put my thoughts in a more coherent form. but it involves getting woke up about 4:45am by people fighting and ends later that night by me getting patted down and disarmed by the local PD.
Quando Omni Flunkus Moratati
June 19th, 2011 11:29 PM
and here you were thinking things couldn't get worse....
slow yourself down; write things down--writing slows ua down to the speed of the written word and helps to structure your thoughts.
re-read it 3 times and keep adding and correcting.
when you think you are done ask yourself if a year from now this will still be important.
if the answer is a honest (as opposed to 'i been wronged', emotional) yes--than the time to do something about this is now.
if the answer is no; than a plan is needed to avoid future unpleasantries with them thats causing you this grief.
the plan is a stop gap till you have time & $ to effect the final answer. which sounds like moving.
good luck, stay cool. having a gun means staying cool--always.
as for the cop telling you about ur rights to where you need a gun....let it go: he had no call to say that but its done.
sop was being disarmed...again, let it go
about your neighbors--thats the write it down part. options, think---options.
most apts have tenant agreements; reread yours with an eye on how their actions and the agreement agree.
You plug 'em, I plant 'em
...kid can't read at 17 (Garcia/Hunter 1985)
Lack of preparation on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on mine
June 19th, 2011 11:32 PM
In the realm of "turnabout is fair play," an anonymous call about drug dealing on the first floor could shed some light where it isn't wanted...
AZCDL Life Member
NRA Patron Member
NROI Chief Range Officer
June 20th, 2011 12:02 AM
I generally try to avoid p contests with druggies. Anonymous reports of disturbing the peace after 10pm, or screaming, or substance abuse will finally get the landlord's attention. Some cities start charging by the call after a few incidences. I know St Cloud is a party town, but you have to create and maintain distance from hoplophobes.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
June 20th, 2011 12:03 AM
Friend had his storage unit burgled, found his stuff on Craig's list with phone # and email. PD refused to get involved when handed crime on a silver platter.
He thought of getting justice, but realized no good deed goes unpunished.
Welcome to Hope and Change.
I'm not a lawyer or a LEO, just a pantload with a computer.
June 20th, 2011 04:32 PM
I'd have to agree with this. I've dealt with my fair share of cop calling neighbors, and the only way to deal with them is to find something they did and call on it. In my case it was junk vehicles and a dead animal pit. In your case it's drugs. An anonymous tip about armed drug dealers should garner some unwanted attention for your lovely neighbors.
Originally Posted by gasmitty
In the future, once the officer has said that you weren't committing a crime, don't stick around for the lecture. Ask him if you're being arrested/detained, retrieve your weapon and be on your merry way.
June 20th, 2011 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by claude clay
OP, be very careful about calling in any "drug dealing" calls unless you witness it firsthand (and are prepared to testify) as that could easilty be construed as filing a false report (and harassment) if the calls are not substanciated.
As for the LEO lecturing you about his time, respectfully inform him what you do is legal (it is, isn't it?) and that he's paid by you to do his job. Thank him for checking out a potential problem and send him on his way with a smile. People hate being killed with kindness.
Retired USAF E-8. Official forum curmudgeon. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
June 20th, 2011 07:10 PM
and now for the rest of the story...
So I'll just begin at the beginning: about 4:45am I hear some noise outside of my bedroom window (3rd floor of the apt bldg), its kinda loud so I peek out and see about a dozen people around and two or three of them fighting. my wife calls the sheriffs dept (where I live they dispatch for the local PD on the nights and weekends) and as soon as the people fighting hear sirens everyone scatters like roaches with the light on. I go down to talk to the officer (different one than later) to tell him what kind of vehicle I saw them leave in (turned out to be a waste of time since they didn't see anything happen).
a neighbor and I were out a few hours later that morning (I was OC) and one of the people that live in the problem apt (and was involved in the fight incident) notice my pistol and comments "there ain't no need for all that", I kinda brush him off saying "don't worry about it" and he kinda mumbles a few other things I couldn't understand (he is usually drunk or high*)
Here comes the interesting part
a couple of neighbors and I see this guy walking around again, he goes around the far end of the building and appears back close to where he started on the phone (I think nothing of it). I also notice that across the street (there is a parking lot there for a school) is a local cop car. the car hauls buttocks over to where I'm standing (with 4 or 5 other people that live in the same building I do), the officer gets out of his car and walks past us (doesn't really say a whole lot) he comes back toward us and see's me.
he asks me to take my hands out of my pockets (I comply) and he wants to know what I'm doing carrying a gun, before I really have a chance to answer he is next to me pulling my gun out of its holster, he then directs me to keep my hands where he can see them and go to his car and put my hands on the hood. I get frisked, he gets my ID and Permit to Carry out of my wallet and again asks "why are you carrying a gun?" I tell him "for personal protection" he says the only reason he carry's a gun is because it's part of the uniform and he can because his is a police officer (in a tone that suggests "how dare you carry a gun"). he then tells me how lucky I am that he didn't have a better description of me because I would've been told to get on the ground at gunpoint. he again asks "why do you carry a gun" I told him again "personal protection, its also because I put it on in the morning for the previously mentioned personal protection of my family and I".
if your still with me thank you, we are closing in on the end :D
So he lectured me on how I make his job harder by "flashing my gun around" and how its dangerous to carry with all the kids at the apt's playground area, and the kicker is: by open carrying I'm the type that gets gun rights taken away.he does say the "it is your right to carry but you should conceal it" then he checks to see if my gun is stolen (surprise surprise, it isn't) he unloads it and gives it back with instructions to not reload until he leaves or I'm inside.
Quando Omni Flunkus Moratati
June 20th, 2011 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Spidey2011
Spidey, it was pretty obvious I was being detained, and my weapon was locked in his car. I didn't get the vibe that he would put up with being questioned. I simply went along with the program because that seemed the most painless way to end the encounter. I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong and that I WOULD be walking away with my pistol.
Originally Posted by OldVet
OldVet, the fact that they are dealing drugs is well known, in fact they are being evicted because of it. but believe me thats not an accusation I would make lightly.
Quando Omni Flunkus Moratati
June 20th, 2011 07:16 PM
Don't take this the wrong way, but this is why I call open carry amateur carry. Keep it hidden and keep a low profile. One of those druggies may be rifling through your apartment now when you aren't home looking for things of value ( firearms ) to sell on the street to get his next fix.
June 20th, 2011 07:45 PM
There are cops that don't like guns, even the one they carry. Welcome to the new enlightened world.
"I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".
June 20th, 2011 07:54 PM
Claude Clay writes: "re-read it 3 times and keep adding and correcting...as for the cop telling you about ur rights to where you need a gun..."
Normally I don't comment on style, but - if you're going to lecture another user on structure, you're opening yourself to criticism along the lines of "begin sentences with capital letters" and "avoid IM-speak like 'ur' etc."
To the OP: This is another datapoint suggesting that OC can cause as many problems as it solves. As others have recommended, carrying concealed affords you the comfort of being armed, the element of surprise, and denial of others the opportunity to file a MWAG report.
On the other hand, OC did not in this case confer upon you any advantages. Quite the reverse: it gave your opponents a weapon to use against you, and a strong incentive to burglarize your property. Also, it is unclear how other residents in the apartments may feel about a resident carrying a firearm. Parents with children, for instance, may be discomfited by it.
My stance on this question has been consistent: In rural areas, people like ranchers carry firearms as normal working tools and OC is customary and normative to their environment. The more urban and densely populated your setting, the more problematic OC is going to be, regardless of statute.
"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."
June 21st, 2011 07:58 AM
I pretty much agree with azchevy here. Basically what you did was introduce a gun to a fist fight- not smart IMO.
Originally Posted by azchevy
"Just blame Sixto"
I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.
June 21st, 2011 08:25 AM
Why don't we provide them for the option to not carry? Of course, that would come with the stipulation that backups would not have to respond to their cries for help. That ought to "enlighten" them.
Originally Posted by Guantes
"I've noticed that everyone that is pro-abortion has already been born." - Ronald Reagan
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.
June 21st, 2011 10:22 AM
In that situation, it probably was better to just smile and nod. I personally wouldn't put up with a cop lecturing me on how not to exercise my rights, but I have more guns at home and have already made a good stink with the Sheriff's Department about gun rights and their deputies.
Originally Posted by Oddjob
Huh? He wasn't involved in the fight, nor did he go outside during the fight. He called the cops and everyone scattered when they showed up. He said the incident with the neighbor was a few hours later. At no point was a gun introduced into a fist fight. Basically what you did was make a conclusion without fully comprehending the situation, not smart IMO.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
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