Why why why
This is a discussion on Why why why within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You have three real options as I see it.
1) You can go full court press with an expensive media campaign, get billboards, primetime news ...
July 11th, 2011 02:03 PM
You have three real options as I see it.
1) You can go full court press with an expensive media campaign, get billboards, primetime news adds, get on talk radio shows all over town, and preach the good word; OC is legal, it's our right, enjoy it! Write letters to all major players in your govnt system asking them to join you in promoting awareness of the law, write open letters to the most relevant people cc'ing your local newspapers, and be sure you are keeping local bloggers involved, using twitter to keep updating the world. This is a lot of work, it's not likely that you have the time and resources to do it, and given that you don't seem very articulate, will probably require help from numerous people. I wish you the best of luck if this is the road you take.
2) You can do what you are doing now. Soak up countless hours of LEO time as they are forced to respond to constant MWAG calls as you socialize with all of the employees at Blockbuster, etc. Deal with lots of tired cops having to follow up with you, as they wish time and again you would just make life easier for them and wear a shirt over it. The only accomplishments you will have to your name are scared sheep, annoyed police officers, and a potentially bad rap as a guy who isn't worth hiring into LEO.
3) You could opt to change, and start covering. The law may not require it, and the LEO can't make you do it, but it might just be smart all around.
July 11th, 2011 04:37 PM
Well I don't think the MWAG calls are going to be an issue on the PD background with the level of grammar and detailed "blah blah blah" (not even any commas there!) report writing. So don't worry about it from that point.
When you open carry sure you're exercising a right, but you're also doing something unusual, and that's going to raise eyebrows and draw attention. Your post makes it seem that you are weary of getting attention. If you don't want officers calling you on your cell phone don't give them you're number, if they have it and you didn't then you've done more than you let on for them to get a warrant to access that information. You start this thread discussing your alleged internet fame, you talk about people online bragging that they OC. Such phrases portray you as someone seeking attention rationalizing behavior under the guise of tactical advantage, and if you weren't able to complain about this attention than you'd have no recourse for seeking the internet fame. If that's not what's going on here, then I'd suggest before hitting the submit button that you take a look at your posts to see if such indicators are in them.
The attention comes from a specific actions and it up to you whether or not you are going to change that action. If you have a legal case for harassment then contact a lawyer and take the proper steps; walls of text on public internet forums not only aren't going to further your case, but the slightest inconsistencies can also be brought to discredit your accusations placed through official chances. And remember just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you lose your ability to exercise sound judgment in doing so.
Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.
Glock Certified Armorer
July 11th, 2011 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Macantic
He isn't breaking the law. He is exercising a right. Just because "they" don't like it doesn't mean he should have to cover it to make them happy.
July 12th, 2011 03:04 AM
Dear Joe. I don't know you nor do you know me so all I have to base any response on is what you have posted here, so please do not take offense if I am off track with some of the things you have said.
"sure, maybe my attacker will wait a minute so i can put my son down before he attacks me...obviously you have never had to react in mere miliseconds to a threat,"
Please put in a response your tactical/combat/gunfight experience where the miliseconds saved your life. You have been reading far to many magazine articles and the hype of drawing from OC as compared to CC.
If that is your reason for open carrying, I think you need to re-evaluate your training and your tactics. Honestly if I was a criminal and you were open carrying with a child in your hand, and I absolutely had to rob you, I would evaluate the situation, and I would take that as a sure sign that I can disarm you before you know what is going on because you are going to be preoccupied with trying to protect your child and not trying to stop me from taking your weapon. That is just me. That layer of cotton means nothing if you train properly. Grey man, discretion = surprise.
The above statement hits the nail on the head.
If you feel you must OC because of the afformentioned "milisecond" needed to draw from concealment you need to train more. What training have you had with your weapon? Have you practiced and mastered firing one handed or weak hand only to compensate for having your child in your arms? Can you reload or manipulate your weapon with one hand in the event of a malfunction. If the answer is no to the above you have bigger issues than LEO stopping you.
LEO's have a duty to respond to a call. Yes the dispatchers could get more info and so on but the one time they would not respond would be the one time that it was not someone legally carrying and their butt would be handed to them in a sling.
While MWAG calls would probably not follow you if you applied for a LE job word of mouth would. When the background check was done and whomever reads it sees your record is clear but someone says "Yeah you know him the guy that carries the gun all the time and we responded to it" there is a good possibility that it may affect you down the line.
I am assuming that you are legally OC'ing in your state because there is not a law saying you can't. If this is not the case please let me know. Often times in these states there are complaints of "harassment" by LEO when all they are doing is responding to a call. The laws need to be changed try working toward that goal.
I don't know that there is a solution to your problem other than cover it up, but you do what you want, if for whatever reason you have not or cannot accomplish the things I mentioned above you really need to consider either CC or not carrying when you have your child with you until you can accomplish those things.
In regards to your writing skills, I may not be the best but "Damn Dude" you need some work.
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013
July 12th, 2011 03:45 AM
I don't believe you are as obtuse as you are presenting yourself to be.
You obviously live in an open carry state. However, it is also just as obvious that the citizens at large (at least in your city) don't feel comfortable seeing people with guns who are not law enforcement. No matter how much you want them to love guns the way you do, there are going to be a significant part of the population who do not like guns, are afraid of guns, don't know anything about guns, and honestly believe guns go off all by themselves.
When you know you are scaring the sheep, you can not be offended when the sheep become restless and call the police. As long as people keep calling the police on you, the police are always going to respond to a man-with-a-gun call. To not respond when called, would likely violate their duty to act.
Now do you think when the police respond, and find you continually being "the man with the gun," that they might not get a little annoyed? They know it's your right. They know you're not violating the law. But when the sheep call, they have to respond. Because the one time they don't respond, will be the time someone was actually calling in to report a real bad guy who was about to rob some place. So, you get offended when they suggest you just do everyone a favor and conceal your weapon?
You can't really have it both ways. Yes, it's your right to openly carry a gun in your state. And yes, it's the right of everyone else to have an unreasonable phobia towards guns.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
July 12th, 2011 04:59 AM
I'm outta popcorn for this thread
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
July 12th, 2011 06:34 AM
You can have mine
I've lost interest.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
July 12th, 2011 07:21 AM
Why? Why? Why?
Because you have chosen a cause, cause, cause.
Either put up with the consequences until the laws, or the attitude of the populace, changes.
Or, pick a less annoying cause.
I agree that you have the right. But, I suspect you knew the likely reactions from early on.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
July 12th, 2011 02:02 PM
Forget everything else!
WOW, can't believe you are continually inviting these confrontations and all the possible/unforeseen ramifications with "YOUR infant son in your arms!!!" An exasperated/tired/overzealous (as in human) officer...deliberately attracting the attention of who knows what type individual or "crew" on the street or at checkout next to the register...
To constantly expose your child to this type of "incident", is, IMO, unconscionable at the least. Unbeknownst to you and the officers involved, their following you home in a marked vehicle time and again has most likely saved your son grievous bodily and/or mental harm.
OR...you are a Troll...
Who is John Galt?
Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us...
When political power is up for grabs, personal liberty is usually one of the first casualties…
July 12th, 2011 02:03 PM
MN is an open carry state and I can see when open carry may be good, mostly times when a BG could see an oppurtunity to take advantage of you and OC would make them think twice.
However, when your in a situation where you're in public and there is no reason for you to be a target OC is completely unnecessary imo. You are basically the shoot me first if something goes sideways, which I thank you because that gives me time to
either get myself out of the situation or get myself into a defensible position. I carry to protect myself and my loved ones not to save the world.
Now if you have known enemies and thats why you carry, then maybe you shouldn't go out in public, go have your shoot outs somewhere private thank you.
OC has its place and it doesn't bother me when I see it, but expect there to be consequences. The anti gunners out there and there are many, do not need any more reasons to make a stink and everytime they make that MWAG call you make their day.
July 12th, 2011 08:58 PM
Move to Indiana, we like guns here
"The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."
July 12th, 2011 09:30 PM
The fact that you are open-carrying while with your 7-month old tells me everything I need to know: you'll blindly exercise your rights, even when it's time to fly below the radar and not be noticed. From an anti-crime standpoint, it's even worse than carrying big clear-bags of money and gold tied around your neck. Guns are VERY attractive items for violent criminals, as you may have noticed and any LEO will tell you. It's your right to do it, but it's damned terrible strategy and shows me that you're not doing job #1: protecting your child at all costs and by every means available. It's going to be real tough to protect the little one, when some mope skulls you with a brick and takes your piece away; you can only defend one or the other, and OC is a full-time job. The only time they should get a good look at it, is muzzle-first!
Consider that not all LEO's are anti-gun a-holes (I'm not), and that maybe we are simply giving you good advice, which you are stubbornly refusing to take.
Try not to zealously think of it as "anti-gun jerky cops vs JoeGlockStar", because it isn't. Try to think of it as strategic planning- there's a tactically-sound time and a place for everything. Open carry when you're out alone, or have armed backup with you.
Again, it's your right to run down the street with a big bag of money and gold bars around your neck, thus exercising your rights to life, liberty, and property, but it just isn't very smart. Smarten up, JoeGlockStar! ;-)
Train, shoot, and write your state/local/US reps, as often as you post on gun boards, and America will be just fine. Semper Fi.
July 12th, 2011 10:50 PM
i also practice as such...situational awareness is the most important thing to consider when open carrying. which i believe myself to be very good at. so in theory, nobody should ever be close enough to "take your weapon" without you knowing. so if somebody can get that close to you, without you knowing their intention and being fully aware of them, you should NOT be carrying concealed or openly. people dont realize that the biggest part of carrying is SA. so getting my gun from me is a slim to none chance. and i wear a BUG also that is concealed so if someone grabbed my gun they better be pretty quick on the trigger and put me down fast
Originally Posted by azchevy
July 12th, 2011 10:58 PM
Snider, that was the best response yet. thanks for the input, right to the point, every option laid out in plain english lol. its surprising how 4 pages later and dozens of posts lead to nothing but jibberish. i am more than willing to PARTICIPATE in a campaign like you suggest in option 1. but as you said, working 50 hours a week and being a full time dad doesnt leave me time to be the only one doing it. thats my original point, that i cant find anyone else that OCs willing to support it.
Originally Posted by Snider
so as of now and a long time ago i will continue option 2. its worth it to me for the fact that im comfortably trained to respond quickly to emergencies in the condition i carry in. number 3 is only a part time option for me, as there IS times i conceal but they are few and far between. a full time option 3 is not an option haha. thanks again for your input, like i said it was the best one yet.
July 12th, 2011 11:15 PM
The responses you have gotten are hardly gibberish. Just like minded and sympathetic folks trying to help you with some common sense issues you asked about. Other boards would not be so accommodating or polite with such nonsense. If you can't accept advice here, who would you listen to? The one post you resonate with is merely a synopsis of everything everyone else says. You asked for some opinions and guidance, and now you dis all those who offer it? Good luck to you.
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