I have seen those videos before, and Have gone over what I would have done many times. It seems in the first vid that you would be shot or even killed if you tried anything from a CC, or even an OC. In the second,you would of had a better chance of being able to do something, just because of the distraction caused by the others. I have to think that in these cases that CC would give an element of surprise. In both vids, the BG was determined to get his job done...Nice post.