Contact with raging OC'er today!

This is a discussion on Contact with raging OC'er today! within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What makes you think something illegal needs to occur for an LEO encounter? What makes you think somebody doing something legal yet unusual could not ...

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Thread: Contact with raging OC'er today!

  1. #76
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    What makes you think something illegal needs to occur for an LEO encounter? What makes you think somebody doing something legal yet unusual could not possibly raise suspicion of the general public or the LEO alike?
    "Just blame Sixto"

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  3. #77
    Member Array Glock30Owner's Avatar
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    I'll answer what make me tick, as an OCer. I've only had one bad encounter with a police officer, and most never say anything to me.

    I believe that I should be left alone by police when not committing a crime. I believe that it is a right to carry a firearm, not a privilege. I don't believe the mere presence of a gun is suspicion of a crime (and SCOTUS agreed). I believe in standing up for my rights when there are attempts to trample them.

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    What makes you think something illegal needs to occur for an LEO encounter? What makes you think somebody doing something legal yet unusual could not possibly raise suspicion of the general public or the Leo alike?
    Great, instead of answering polite questions you go into the typical, "Obey me" attitude. I can see you are a perfect credit to your profession. Are you Daniel Harless, by any chance?

  4. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock30Owner View Post
    Great, instead of answering polite questions you go into the typical, "Obey me" attitude. I can see you are a perfect credit to your profession. Are you Daniel Harless, by any chance?
    Where is the obey me attitude? Were my questions not polite?

    I could say, great, instead of answering my question, you go into the typical OC'er chip on the shoulder attitude... but I didn't. I could have gone into your profile to see that you are a security guard and asked if you were Gecko45... but I didn't.

    You chose to wage a lame personal attack on me, which really isn't a smart thing to do if you like DC.com. Thanks for quickly showing your true colors instead of weakly disguising them with "honest" questions.

    And that is why I have an issue with the OC movement.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    And that is why I have an issue with the OC movement.
    It doesn't take someone who OC's to misread someone's tone/true meaning on a message board. I could close my eyes and throw a digital rock in any direction in here and I have no doubt I will hit a thread, on any topic, where this happens.

    I got your meaning though SIXTO (or at least I think I did). If a LEO walks past me on the street and says hi to me ... HOLY HELL that was an encounter with a LEO and I survived.
    “Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands.”
    - Col. Jeff Cooper

  6. #80
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    Don't misunderstand, I really do support OC. I couldn't care less what method people choose to carry. I think the grey man approach is by far the smartest approach, but hey, whatever floats your boat. I fully recognize that the best options for me might not be for you.
    Where my problem lay with this, is the jackwagons who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground making a mockery of themselves (and in turn all of us) with the stupid antics we see over and over again.
    Just what way are they trying to swing gun laws? All the general public sees is another loon parading around with a gun. They don't care what kind of statement you are trying to make. Hell, I don't care either. Just don't ruin a good thing for everyone else.

    There I'm done ranting. Carry on.
    fastk9dad and Hopyard like this.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #81
    Member Array Glock30Owner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Where is the obey me attitude? Were my questions not polite?

    I could say, great, instead of answering my question, you go into the typical OC'er chip on the shoulder attitude... but I didn't. I could have gone into your profile to see that you are a security guard and asked if you were Gecko45... but I didn't.

    You chose to wage a lame personal attack on me, which really isn't a smart thing to do if you like DC.com. Thanks for quickly showing your true colors instead of weakly disguising them with "honest" questions.

    And that is why I have an issue with the OC movement.
    I do have a chip on my shoulder. Your brothers in blue put it there. I will answer your questions, I do expect honest answers to my previous questions in return, without cop-double speak or more questions.

    Yes, a police officer can contact someone without having RAS on illegal activity. That is a "consensual" encounter and the citizen is free to tell the cop to pound sand.

    Legal activity that appears to be suspicious or unusual deserves to be observed, nothing more nothing less, to determine if there is illegal activity happening.

    As a moderator, you are free to ban me for any reason, though if it happens, I would like it to be a banning for breaking the rules and not for holding an opinion unpopular with the powers that be or for asking uncomfortable questions.

  8. #82
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    Thanks for your permission to ban you. Since You asked, you would be banned for a personal attack on a moderator, which is one of the quickest ways to get banned. There is no "cop double speak" (whatever that is) in that.

    What exactly do you mean by "ID him"? Why would you need to, since open carry is legal in Ohio without a permit? What criminal activity did you reasonably suspect this person was involved in that would require contact, rather than a visual drive by?
    You know exactly what ID means, I asked for a drivers license and or other identification and got it. Why would I need too... I already stated way back in post number one that I will not get into the details for both his and my own protection and privacy, but there was several albeit minor, laws and ordinances that were broken. When you are dealing with private properties and public gatherings, things get a little dicey for the OC'er. The error on his part was quickly corrected, so I saw it as no harm no foul as did the complainant. We'll just say that there was a good reason for LEO to be called to the scene and leave it at that.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #83
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    On other forums that I have participated in, moderators operated under a cloak of anonymity. They were still allowed to have ID's on the forum, but for moderation purposes, they remained anonymous. If they couldn't keep their personal feelings and opinions separate from their duties as a moderator, they weren't allowed to be moderators. Has something like that ever been considered here?

    I'm not taking sides here, but it allows an argument to take place between two members without one trumping the argument with the "but I'm a moderator" shield.

  10. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    On other forums that I have participated in, moderators operated under a cloak of anonymity. They were still allowed to have ID's on the forum, but for moderation purposes, they remained anonymous. If they couldn't keep their personal feelings and opinions separate from their duties as a moderator, they weren't allowed to be moderators. Has something like that ever been considered here?

    I'm not taking sides here, but it allows an argument to take place between two members without one trumping the argument with the "but I'm a moderator" shield.
    No, not to my knowledge. And I'm not trumping anyone (if I was, Glock30Owner would have been gone an hour ago)... but personal attacks are not allowed here as its clearly stated in the rules. I've been in many many many debates with members and never have or will ban or even issue points to anyone for a difference of opinion. The debates and back and forth is what makes this forum fun for me. Once the clearly drawn lines are crossed though, its game on and I'm happy to show you the door. A line was crossed here today, and I have not acted upon it simply because it was lame and does directly involve me. If another mod decides to take action, then so be it. Thats the way it works here.

    Long time members know I love to argue and debate, even taking a devils advocate position from time to time, so its really a non issue.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    You know exactly what ID means, I asked for a drivers license and or other identification and got it. Why would I need too... I already stated way back in post number one that I will not get into the details for both his and my own protection and privacy, but there was several albeit minor, laws and ordinances that were broken. When you are dealing with private properties and public gatherings, things get a little dicey for the OC'er. The error on his part was quickly corrected, so I saw it as no harm no foul as did the complainant. We'll just say that there was a good reason for LEO to be called to the scene and leave it at that.
    Had you stated that the OCer had allegedly broken some minor laws/ordinances, I would not have asked about IDing him. I commend you on over looking minor stuff.

    Does Ohio law demand that a citizen turn over their driver's license to police when not operating a motor vehicle? If not, and he refused to give you his papers, would you have charged him with those minor infractions? Had he expressed that he preferred to remain silent during detainment, would you have charged him with the minor infractions?

  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock30Owner View Post
    Had you stated that the OCer had allegedly broken some minor laws/ordinances, I would not have asked about IDing him. I commend you on over looking minor stuff.

    Does Ohio law demand that a citizen turn over their driver's license to police when not operating a motor vehicle? If not, and he refused to give you his papers, would you have charged him with those minor infractions? Had he expressed that he preferred to remain silent during detainment, would you have charged him with the minor infractions?
    Maybe, maybe not. No, Ohio law does not demand somebody furnish ID for simply walking down the street... however that can be a double edged sword. If there is a legit investigation and somebody wants to play games, it could result in an obstruction of official business charge. Would I have charged him with the minor infractions had he not given me his drivers license? I don't know, I might have. It wouldnt be worth my time and the taxpayers dime would be the biggest reason why I wouldnt. It just really depends.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #87
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    Would you mind linking the obstruction law?

    Otherwise, I thank you for your answers and apologize for my previous hasty insult. It was not warranted.

    Edit: I found the Obstruction law. I would also direct you to State v Grice.

  14. #88
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    Lawriter - ORC - 2921.31 Obstructing official business.

    As for the rest it's over as far as I'm concerned. Drive on.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  15. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    On other forums that I have participated in, moderators operated under a cloak of anonymity. They were still allowed to have ID's on the forum, but for moderation purposes, they remained anonymous. If they couldn't keep their personal feelings and opinions separate from their duties as a moderator, they weren't allowed to be moderators. Has something like that ever been considered here?

    I'm not taking sides here, but it allows an argument to take place between two members without one trumping the argument with the "but I'm a moderator" shield.
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    If another mod decides to take action, then so be it. Thats the way it works here.

    Long time members know I love to argue and debate, even taking a devils advocate position from time to time, so its really a non issue.
    Just so you know, RockBottom, and everyone else for that matter. We moderators were picked from the forum members. We are human just like everyone else and there are topics that we get involved in that may get a little heated. That is why there are more than just a few of us. We also moderate each other.

    We commonly delete each others' posts, tell each other it may be time to step out of a thread or sometimes choose to stay out of a thread altogether and pass moderation to another mod so that our prejudices do not get in the way.

    I don't think there is a single moderator on "staff" who has not been moderated. Some of our "actions" are reversed for being unfair or heavy-handed. We do a very good job of checking each other, if I must say so myself.

    If Sixto were to ban anyone or delete any posts due to this exchange in this particular thread I can guarantee that his actions would be reviewed and if anyone was reinstated or his actions reversed and he was told to cool down he would not feel bad about it. He would back out graciously and there would be no hard feelings. He's a good guy like that.

    That's what makes this forum really great. No one, not even the moderators, are above moderation from other moderators.

    And I have YET to see an abuse of power by any of the staff to the point of, "I disagree with you so I'm going to ban you." That would NEVER fly here. The moderator would probably not be a moderator for very long if he/she tried that.

    That being said, we moderators are allowed to have our opinions and post them. We have to stay within the rules like anyone else and if we don't we'll get moderated, too, but we are not asked to give up having opinions and biases just because we became mods. That would be horrible and exceptionally boring for the staff here!!

  16. #90
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    He's a good guy like that.
    C'mon Lima. Let's not tell any fibs here, "good guy" might be stretching it a bit.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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