And so we have reached consensus- yea us:shakehands:
Originally Posted by carracer
I watched the video on the Boise Zoo meet- very good, they had to dig deep to put the slightest negative spin on the event i.e. scaring uneducated kids. (Don't want kids thinking guns are good-- THEY ARE EVIL:rolleyes:) They had to admit that the carriers waited peacefully for 30 minutes while their rights were 'ok'd' with the police-excellent. This we agree is what builds a good image and I would be more than happy to give my personal support to such an event.
My wife is similar, she now leaves 'hints' in the magazines of what gun I should buy. When did we decide it is a good idea to teach women to shoot?:aaa:
I also agree with you about bashing. Open debate is fine but we need to remember we are all on the same choir- we have different opinions of which hymn to sing. In the end we all seek the same thing. This is the reason I post to this forum rather than some others that more of an attitude that THIS way is the RIGHT way.
Would love to meet over dinner but I am about 1200 miles away. Should I ever head out that far I'll let you know:smile:
I'm drawing attention to the wildly exaggerated and inaccurate use of the phrase "shoving something down [one's] throat". OCers gathering at a restaurant to do what everyone else does at a restaurant (i.e., having a meal) aren't "forcing" a viewpoint on anyone. They're sitting there. Eating food. Possibly talking to each other about work or sports. Have we become so thin-skinned, so ultra-sensitive, so effeminately PC that this is considered an "aggressive" campaign? It seems like non-OC people who've never been to an OC meet are just as ignorantly opinionated about them as gun-grabbers.
Originally Posted by Yankeejib
It seems in these debates that there is only room for rabid, militant supporters and equally rabid, militant opponents. You must be one or the other, because there's no room for anyone trying to navigate the issue with reason and logic. Society, in general, has slipped into complete ignorance about firearms and they've been taught to fear them and the people who carry them. There is NO WAY in hell that we can dispel this WITHOUT nudging our way into people's comfort zone. Unless, of course, you have the money to buy a media empire where you can bombard the masses with reverse propaganda, but I'm short a few billion dollars on that front so it will have to be someone else.
Wearing a shirt that says "#&%@ YOU, I CARRY A GUN" is inappropriate. But having a casual, well-behaved, civilized OC meet at the local Shoney's is NOT.
Yes, thank you for the clarification. Insults and name calling will go miles towards changing the minds of those who navigate the middle, yet pretty much agree with and support your opinions and positions. With regards to those who disagree, well.... good luck.
Originally Posted by jumpwing
Well... I was going to invite everyone to my house for the victory party this evening, but... The Broncos went down in defeat AT HOME to a very good TCU team. First loss at home since 2006. The OC part of this is I was watching the game at Wingers in the sports lounge with my favorite 1911. I was only OC till half time as the air cond kept coming on so had to put my coat on.
So to catch my breath. Thank you all for the input and banter today! I have to go console myself now. Anyone coming to the Boise PM to me and we'll have a beverage of some sort. Back on tomorrow!
We have several OC dinners around here a year. We had about one a month in the spring but we have not had one in a couple months. We have had it at several different locations from local BBQ places to golden corral. In the events I have been to there has never been any problems, and the owner of one of the BBQ places even said he enjoys us coming because he knows that with a group of guys carrying their guns in the open no one would rob the place. Of course this is a BBQ place in NC, and he has a sign on one of the walls with an old revolver on it that says we do not dial 911 here. Part of the objective of these meets is to let people know that OC is legal and that the people who do it are just your friendly average citizen and not criminals. But we also have the meets to have like minded people get together and talk about guns, gun laws, other laws, and any other random items we come up with and have a good time and share a few laughs. We don't go through the restaurant yelling we carrying guns in the open because the law says we can and its our right and if you do not like it than tough. We get together at a couple tables, talk, share some laughs and have a good time. Sometimes we get people who are just curious about why we do what we do and we tell them. Sometimes we have some OC pamphlets or cards to give them.
Most of the time we get the I CC and did not know this was legal, thats good to know. Or the I have been thinking about getting a gun for protection or something along those lines. Other meets we get no one talking to us about it, it just depends. We do not "shove" it down any ones throats, we just get together for dinner and talk and have a good time, only difference from us and anyone else in the room is our guns are on our hips in the open. We have only had good interactions with other people at out get together and never had any bad ones that I can remember. Sometimes we have helped educate some people who came by and talked to us who were curious and interested in what we were doing.
So far we have not had anyone come to us and say we are going to get the law changed so you people who want to get in groups at a restaurant while eating food around other people cant do it anymore and stop scarring people. Or someone say I am going to sell all my guns because I don't want to be a gun owner and be associated with people who choose to let other people see the guns they are carrying. If you are comfortable OC'ing, great do it, if not conceal. I get tired of the back and forth between CCC'ers and OC'ers about whether OC helps or hurts. Funny thing is 99% of the time its a CC'er who starts the problems when a good thread like this starts to get derailed.
Ah yes the thread is derailed by the big mean guys who carry concealed and the good natured guys who mean well but are just misunderstood are the victims of all this.
Many who have been on this forum for awhile have lived through the "we must support our brothers" where videos were posted of OC meetings, dinners, or whatever with three guys with cammo outside a restaurant argueing with uniformed officers who were called to the scene after the manager of the restaurant called them there.
The manager was fine with handguns holstered eating all good until an active member of MOC who makes a living of carrying his AR everywhere shows up and the manager asked him/them to leave. If that is not shoving in someone's face or down there throat what is?
If you are going to OC with the intent of self protection great, if you are going to OC your double, silver studded cowboy rig or a damn rifle to show everyone how big and bad you are all you are doing is showing how truly ignorant your ideas are but remember you are the ambassadors for everyone, they will compare everyone to that one individual, they will compare every gun law coming up for a vote, every SD shooting will go back to that one guy "Remember Martha that man at Shoney's that had the rifle on his back? We can't vote for this gun thing with nuts like him running around".
Yes there are good and bad in every movement but remember that one guy will get more bad press without trying than all the good things like meets, dinners and toy drives put together.
Just as you are now labeled the ambassadors for all gun toters that one guy who does the most outlandish, stupid, embarrassing thing is your ambassador for open carry and who everyone else compares you to no matter how good your intentions.
I would not call them big mean guys who carry conceal, I would call them guys who liked to stir problems in the OC section. I have been coming here for a couple years, and most, not all but most OC threads I see start off with someone asking a question that people who OC respond to, and then the couple guys who do not like OC come in and start it, the it causes more problems than its worth, it does more harm than good, its the reason that it was banned in komnifornia etc., thats trying to shove it down someones throat. Its one of the reasons I post so little here, the attitudes of some of the members. I know most of the guys on here that don't OC are in the I am not comfortable doing it but if you are go for it category. But there are several on this forum that are in the I am not comfortable with anybody doing it and I am going to let every OC'er know it because he is going to help get my rights taken away. So they come and post in just about every OC topic and tell us how wrong we are and how bad an image we are setting and so on. Funny though, I have not seen any topics I can think of in the CC section where an OC'er came in saying how wrong he thinks CC'ing is and how CC'ers are setting a bad image for gun owners because they carrying their guns like the criminals and that will help lead to our rights being taken away.
Originally Posted by tacman605
As far as the incident you talked about, I have not heard of it so I can not really comment on it. But I have seen some videos where an OC'er handled the situation badly and made themselves and other OC'ers look like arrogant jerks. However with the thousands of OC'ers across the country, I have only seen a couple incidents like those and for the most part the OC events have good impact on other people. If someone wants to OC a cowboy rig I don't see the problem. I don't see how if someone does that it makes their ideas ignorant.
I just posted that from around here in NC, we have quite a few OC meets all over the state and I have been to a few myself. I have never had about any of these turning ugly or people giving us a hard time. For the most part in NC OC is a non issue, some places it is or if you pass the wrong cop or get that one person who decides to call 911 after the manager told them that it was legal and they are welcome there. But that does not happen that often. Most of the time nothing happens, I know its hard to believe 10-20 scary guys with guns on their hips eating, and I cant believe they were just eating, and nothing happened?!?!?! But that's impossible! But it is, sometimes we get people coming asking us questions about it, and we politely answer. But for the most part we have a full building of people seeing a croup of guys with guns eating and nothing happens, so the next time they see someone with a gun on their holster they have a mental registry that he was one of the guys that was eating and laughing at golden corral last week, he is nothing to be afraid of just a normal guy, and then goes on his way. Whether it was actually one of those at golden corral or not, they now have a mental image that people who carry guns in their holster are not a threat to them. And they can pass that on to other people. Thats what makes these OC events good and how they work, here is NC. I can't speak for how they work in other states but I have heard good things about some of those to.
For the record, I CC as well as OC. During spring and summer, its more comfortable to OC for me, during the winter and during some activities, its more comfortable for me to CC. I OC or CC on practicality. If its more practical and comfort to OC I OC, if its more practical and comfortable for me to CC then I CC.
jag06 we agree that all it takes is one to make us all look like fools.
I am not against OC at all, if it works go for it but all it takes is just one to make it bad for all of us and that is all I see on the videos or some of the posts here. I am glad the meets and dinners work out that is what we need more of. I was stationed in NC years ago and carried daily most of it was OC if I remember right never had an issue.
No one way is right over the other. There are some guys that make OC'ers look bad and some that make CC'ers look bad either way though it is how we will all be judged.
tacman605, I completely agree with you. There are extreme people on both sides that make the rest of us look bad. All we can do is continue to show everyone the extreme ones are few and far between and that the people who OC/CC are not different than anyone else, we have just decided to have the option to protect our selves if ever need be.
I just get tired of reading how OC'ers cause problems for CC'ers and how OC'ers are just a crackpot fringe group trying to shove guns down peoples throats from some members on this board. I know they are just the few extreme members that make CC'ers look bad, but I get tired of their relentless efforts to make themselves and CC'ers, and not to mention everyone on the here on the board to visiters, look like a bunch of arrogant jerks.
Side note, where were you stationed in NC? I have been fortunate through the Boy Scouts that I have been able to visit most of the bases here in NC, Lejuene, New River, Bragg, Pope. Been past cherry point and Seymour Johnson. Met a lot of good folks at those bases.
I was born on MCAS Cherry Point and was stationed at Lejeune and Camp Geiger.
Just a sidenote question. When I carried there the law, again if I remember correctly, you could carry semi concealed, oh god that will start something, as long as what you carried was identified as a handgun or something to that effect? To carry in the car I think you had to have the two step rule to get the gun into action.
Just trying to remember that was a long time ago.
Been through Havloc many times. Went all the way there(about 4 hours from home) for the air show a couple years ago to find they cancelled the air show do to wind and clouds that were gone by mid morning.
I have not heard anything about carrying semi concealed, I will have to look that up. If you can see any part of the guns its open, if you cant see at least a part of it its concealed, thats my understanding of how it works.. You can OC in the car, without a concealed carry permit to my understanding, however if you get pulled over and the cop cannot see it from his angle(such , then he could cite you for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit(if you don'y have one). The safest thing I have been told to do is to put it on the front seat while driving so there is no mistake that its in the open. For the most parts its left to the officers discretion. Its one of those weird grey areas that politicians love to put us in. I guess this is the part where I add IANAL.
That may be what I am remembering that it had to be open enough to be seen and recognized as a weapon.
Perhaps some folks from our area should plan another OC gathering for sometime like February, in the larger community to the northeast of you. I'd happily attend (hint, hint :-).
It is nothing like the gay rights movement. The gay rights movement is trying to gain basic equality for themselves and the OC movement is trying to make a point. The pride parades are the equivalent of OC marches.
Originally Posted by Yankeejib
But either way, explain how these damage perceptions.