Question About Open Carry You Tube

This is a discussion on Question About Open Carry You Tube within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Michigan Open Carry Does way more good then harm in the "2A" world of gun rights. if You don't believe it then fine, but look ...

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  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Michigan Open Carry Does way more good then harm in the "2A" world of gun rights. if You don't believe it then fine, but look up news articles of how many city policies that were against CC or OC, we got them in line with state law so everyone could legally carry.

    We are all on the same team here guys. And if i carry around a video camera so I don't get throw in jail. cops word vs. my word in court. I'm backed up this way. I don't go looking for trouble, just go about my daily tasks. If a cop wants to harass me, then on goes the video camera, hold everyone accountable.

    If I chose to put it on youtube for others to learn what to do or not to do, that is my choice. (p.s. I have never had to video anything just saying if i did I could.)
    TN_Mike and oneshot like this.
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    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Why would I be afraid? I exercise that right nearly everywhere I go.
    If you're talking about CC, that's not a right, it's a privilege. If you don't need a license for it, it's a right.

  4. #48
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    If you're talking about CC, that's not a right, it's a privilege. If you don't need a license for it, it's a right.
    I am not sure I agree, I believe CC and OC are rights, but rights can be regulated. I have the right to vote, however, the govenrment does impose regulations on the exercise of that right.
    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

    There's nothing that will change someone's moral outlook quicker than cash in large sums.

    Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trip20 View Post
    This thread illustrates that we are divided within our own community of firearms enthusiasts and personal protection proponents. We really are our own worst enemy. Some of the hyperbole in this thread is disgusting to read as it's the same practice used by those in the anti-gun movement.

    There is no difference between a Brady Campaign member calling you "Rambo" for wanting to carry a firearm for protection, as compared to some of the members of this forum using terms such as "attention whore" or similar when referring to an open carrier.

    I'm sure it's a hard pill to swallow, however what it boils down to is an individual is doing something that you're not particularly comfortable with for whatever reason, and so you deride that person by making them out to be some extremist loony tune. That is anti-gun playbook 101.
    Well said and 100% accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiliman View Post
    I used to feel much like the original poster and the others who feel that way. I've developed and come to really understand the issue, and I've done it the hard way. Let me share a bit.

    I've always been very pro 2A and had my concealed. But I am also in the sports bar business and years ago prevented open carry in my businesses. This was really to appease employee's comfort level. Well, I became the target of the VCDL here in Virginia in July 2006 with an email campaign....now I'm a member! Their tactics were pretty heavy handed and their many members very confrontational without interest in anything except yelling their point. MANY were great correspondences with some educational back & forth between myself and them. I received northwards of 300 emails at a time in my life I wanted nothing more than to tell them to go F themselves, I had just lost my 7 year old son in a drowning accident the month before. Back in 2006-2007 I believe there was a much more forceful effort by VCDL against businesses banning OC which backfired on them sometimes. I find the organization much more inclined to work hard to educate a business now before pushing harder.

    Why do I go through all that background? Because I think most people go through the same education process I went through. At first you see the OC groups & individuals as confrontational, looking for trouble, and harmful to the the 2A supporters. Then if you really look at it, you realize that without persons fighting for your rights and pushing against illegal restrictions those rights go away. It is not my way nor will I ever be the person who is disrespectful to law enforcement but the fact is if you are being wrongly stopped, illegally detained, asked for information and ID's in a manner that pretends you do not have an option to provide them, then those tactics are no more right than the tactics of the OC groups who are really ensuring all our rights remain intact.

    While I do not believe the civil rights movement is the same as the OC and 2A movement (some will disagree with good cause since a right is a right) the actions are parallel. There are rights being restricted by law enforcement through questionable actions and there are activists doing nothing more than exercising their rights and pushing against wrongly exercised authority. I appreciate most of what the OC crowd does, even it it is not the way I would personally go about it.

    That's My 2c !
    My friend, first may I say that I am sorry to hear about the loss of your child. My wife and I lost a child in 2000, so i know your pain and i completely understand what you went through. It's horrible.

    next I'd like to say what a great story yours is that you were once a target of the VCDL and are now a member. Your explanation of your journey from where you were to where you are now on OC is a good one and i appreciate you sharing it with us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    And many got beaten, arrested, jailed, lynched and murdered in the process. They were fighting for rights they did not have. We already have the right to carry. Do public displays of firearms enhance that right, or jeopardize it?
    Enhance, without question.

    Quote Originally Posted by kapnketel View Post
    I am not sure I agree, I believe CC and OC are rights, but rights can be regulated. I have the right to vote, however, the govenrment does impose regulations on the exercise of that right.
    You do not need to beg the government for a permit to vote.
    ,=====o00o _
    //___l__,\____\,__
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    If I were in a place where OC was legal, but I knew that I might get hassled, I would choose to avoid the situation and CC.
    It's not that difficult of a choice.
    Saying that, I might also note that it is important to know what one's legal rights ARE and how to defend them, but why choose the hassle route?

    As in all walks of life, there are constantly individuals who wish to push the boundaries...I choose the easier path of non-confrontation, up to a point.


    Worth a "like" and a quote... Perfectly stated IMO...
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugerguy View Post
    I know OC is often legal and even no permit required in some states. I guess all I should have said here was that I don't respect people who love flaunting 2A rights in front of police.
    I "flaunt" driving to/from work the speed limit everyday in front of the police? Big woop?
    SIGguy229 likes this.

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Lowe View Post
    If you don't need a license to do it, it's a right. If you have to have a license to do it, it's a privilege. So far, carrying concealed is a right in Vermont, Alaska, and I think Wyoming...oh, and I think now, also Arizona. Everywhere else, it's a privilege.
    I wouldn't disagree entirely with ya, but depending on what side of the coin is in the seat of power during the "lets exorcize our rights" campaign, could prove to be problematic overall for everyone. Pressing the envelope on most anything alota times yields bad results for the "pressor". IMO, it's sorta like a chess game with todays political dynamic; make a bad move and you pay for it big-time in the long run, and until another election cycle... IMO, the go for the throat mentality when dealing with certain subjects could cause more harm than good.

    A crowd of folks exorcising the right, is a movement. One or two guys doing the same is considered a nuisance, not by my opinion, but it seems to be the censuses with the masses. Sad but true. Just sayin.


    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  9. #53
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    Mlr1m and others you are kidding right. "What makes you think they want to be stopped?"

    As stated the majority of people who OC do it for self protection but the "1%" as you call them get all the airtime with the film crew that is following them around. It has been posted on here and beaten to death many do it just to get attention. They carry cheap firearms they have no intent to defend themselves with and dont lose anything if they are confiscated I was informed of this right here in the OC forum. Some carry long guns just cause they can for shock value or to draw attention all under the premise that "We are educating the public".

    I have no problem with OC but as was stated in another post you are the ambassadors for everyone who carries a firearm and I assure you that "one guy" will be the one who makes the news or gets 3 zillion hits on youtube will be the one we are all judged by.

    What makes you think they want to be stopped? Well the AR at the salad bar is my first clue.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Mlr1m and others you are kidding right. "What makes you think they want to be stopped?"

    As stated the majority of people who OC do it for self protection but the "1%" as you call them get all the airtime with the film crew that is following them around. It has been posted on here and beaten to death many do it just to get attention. They carry cheap firearms they have no intent to defend themselves with and dont lose anything if they are confiscated I was informed of this right here in the OC forum. Some carry long guns just cause they can for shock value or to draw attention all under the premise that "We are educating the public".

    I have no problem with OC but as was stated in another post you are the ambassadors for everyone who carries a firearm and I assure you that "one guy" will be the one who makes the news or gets 3 zillion hits on youtube will be the one we are all judged by.

    What makes you think they want to be stopped? Well the AR at the salad bar is my first clue.
    Lets say this is true that they do want to be stopped. I'm sure there are those who do.
    Why are the police giving them what they want? Ignore them if they are not breaking any laws. Don't give them their time in the spotlight by doing exactly what they expect you to do.
    Are some of them baiting the police? Probably, but where does it say the police have to take the bait. Aren't they supposed to be better trained than that?
    If the police know that it is legal to open carry why are they stopping them?
    If the police do not know what they are doing is illegal why are they stopping them? Should we stop everyone to see if they are breaking a law? Hold them until I can confirm no law has been broken?

    As for the AR at the salad bar. Is it illegal? If so you have an arrest to make. If it isn't illegal there is nothing for you to do. Except maybe to inform anyone concerned that no law is being broken.

    Michael
    Last edited by mlr1m; November 30th, 2011 at 04:10 AM. Reason: I made an oopsie
    SamF likes this.

  11. #55
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    LE has a duty to respond if called so yes they have to take the bait on occasion but again these ambassadors of the gun world are teaching and showing everyone they have their rights of course it does not matter they look utterly stupid doing it but whatever floats their boat.

    Nope AR at the salad bar is not illegal it is a dumb butt stunt to get attention and for shock value. It makes gun owners in general look like a bunch of morons wanting to shoot someone but it is his god given right to do it and gain attention and "Edumicate" the public on what his rights are, right up to the point those rights are taken away. Dont believe me? Ask someone involved in the OC movement in California it worked really good there.
    SIXTO likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Lowe View Post
    If you're talking about CC, that's not a right, it's a privilege. If you don't need a license for it, it's a right.
    Rights are often heavily regulated by the states, right down to essential human functions. One can and must urinate regularly, but will be criminally charged for doing so openly and publicly. There are countless other examples.

  13. #57
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Rights are often heavily regulated by the states, right down to essential human functions. One can and must urinate regularly, but will be criminally charged for doing so openly and publicly. There are countless other examples.
    When they start issuing a license so you can urinate in public, let me know.

  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Lowe View Post
    When they start issuing a license so you can urinate in public, let me know.
    And when they stop regulating your right to do so publicly, let me know.

  15. #59
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    And when they stop regulating your right to do so publicly, let me know.
    I don't recall ever seeing it listed anywhere that I could expose myself in public.

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Lowe View Post
    I don't recall ever seeing it listed anywhere that I could expose myself in public.
    Sorry you are having a tough time with the analogy. Rights, many of which are inherent, are subject to regulation. Licensing is but one of many of those regulations.

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