Question About Open Carry You Tube

This is a discussion on Question About Open Carry You Tube within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tacman605 I am not saying anything bad about OC'ers I am merely using this as an example. A call is received of ...

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  1. #76
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    I am not saying anything bad about OC'ers I am merely using this as an example.

    A call is received of a man with a gun in the parking lot of Denny's. "It's ok sir it is legal to open carry a firearm in this state and we will not dispatch an officer".

    5 minutes later said man openly carrying a firearm begins a shooting rampage killing 4 and then himself. The crowd goes wild "Why was an officer not sent" "This could have been prevented" Families sue the city for failure to act causing the death of a family member. If only they had dispatched an officer maybe the guy would have given up, or the officer could have eliminated the threat.

    We never know what will happen. Yes it may be a guy legally carrying but what if it is not? Should there be a 100ft rule? or Observe for 2 minutes? Just as we have the right to carry others have a right to call the police and be concerned that is their right to.

    We will just have to agree to disagree on some of this. Yes attitude is everything on both the part of the OC'er and the officer involved and we both agree "that guy" can make us all look bad.
    The only thing I see wrong with your scenario, most people who plan to do something bad with a gun, usually keep it hidden (Concealed) until they're ready to strike.

    Having said that, it's already been determined by the courts, if your only reason for questioning someone is that they are OCing, that's not considered RAS. You can ask for ID, but generally, the OCer is not required to provide it. And erring on the side of caution, can get the officer(s) and the city embroiled in a lawsuit for violating the "suspects" rights.

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  3. #77
    Member Array SamF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Oh, Cmon. Do you think that a single guy making an arse of himself is doing anyone any good?
    Yes. Rosa Parks is an excellent example.

    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    If you want to fight for carry laws and pro-gun legislation, do it with your ballots on election day and support national organizations like the NRA.
    I do even more than that. Last year I ran for State Senate and I am now an NRA EVC.
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  4. #78
    Member Array SamF's Avatar
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    Let's add a little perspective.

    A call is received of a man driving a car in the parking lot of Denny's. "It's ok sir it is legal to drive a car in this state and we will not dispatch an officer".

    5 minutes later said man drives his car the wrong way on the freeway killing 4 and then himself. The crowd goes wild "Why was an officer not sent" "This could have been prevented" Families sue the city for failure to act causing the death of a family member. If only they had dispatched an officer maybe the guy would have given up, or the officer could have eliminated the threat.

    We never know what will happen. Yes it may be a guy legally driving but what if it is not? Should there be a 100ft rule? or Observe for 2 minutes? Just as we have the right to drive others have a right to call the police and be concerned that is their right to.

    We will just have to agree to disagree on some of this. Yes attitude is everything on both the part of the driver and the officer involved and we both agree "that guy" can make us all look bad.
    Your concern appears ridiculous when applied a what we all consider a privilege but, for some reason, it makes sense when applied to a right? This change becomes even more relevant when you remember that cars kill far more than guns do.

  5. #79
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamF View Post
    Yes. Rosa Parks is an excellent example.
    Yea, a single OC'er is comparable to Rosa Parks. That is an insult to the brave men and women who fought for their civil rights.

  6. #80
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    Sam a person driving a car through a parking lot is an everyday normal activity that many, many people do everyday. Not that many OC, as compared to the general population so your example does not quite cut it. The act of the car in the parking lot is not something that will alarm the general public.
    Now if the call was "There is a car driving 70 miles an hour through the parking lot of Denny's" that is something that would raise an alarm to some just as someone carrying a firearm would be to the misinformed.

    Al many active shooters including the one at Denny's did not conceal anything he simply got out of his vehicle gun in hand and walked across/into the parking lot just as someone who, for whatever reason, would OC a long gun.

    Please do not compare some of these actions to Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King. I have yet to hear an "I have a Glock" speech in D.C. The topic of this post was the videos on youtube and some of their stupid antics not the civil rights movement. The fact remains some of the folks who post the videos are out simply to get something on tape in order to POST THE VIDEO. It has nothing to do with the 2A or self defense it is strictly to see who they can gain attention from.

    These ambassadors simply make all of us look like fools by both their actions and their speech.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #81
    Member Array trip20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Yea, a single OC'er is comparable to Rosa Parks. That is an insult to the brave men and women who fought for their civil rights.
    You're grossly misrepresenting the Rosa Parks comparison. People need to stop ruining civil discussion with straw man tactics.

    What is represented by the defiance of an individual standing up for their civil rights is very much in line with what it means to question unlawful detainment/questioning with no RAS for someone engaged in lawful activity.
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  8. #82
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trip20 View Post
    You're grossly misrepresenting the Rosa Parks comparison. People need to stop ruining civil discussion with straw man tactics.

    What is represented by the defiance of an individual standing up for their civil rights is very much in line with what it means to question unlawful detainment/questioning with no RAS for someone engaged in lawful activity.
    If you OC you know you are going to get stopped. In my mind it is fine with me if I OC to get stopped and asked for my ID. They want to make sure I am "legal". Common sense says a criminal wouldn't OC, but who knows. The person my be a nut. I can't stand it when a person OC's and then complains when they get the inevitable MWAG call and the police stop them for questioning. If you don't want the hassle, untuck your shirt and conceal your weapon like the rest of us. It is yet another reason I choose not to OC.

    When I go out to do something, I take my gun. I don't do it to make a statement or defend the 2nd amendment, I do it to defend MYSELF and those close to me.

    And for the record, I never brought up Rosa Parks but stand by my statement. What she did and a what a OC'er in modern day with a camera is doing are VERY different things. OC is legal, for Rosa, riding a bus in the front wasn't. BIG DIFFERENCE. OC'ers wouldn't OC if it meant jail time.

  9. #83
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Yea, a single OC'er is comparable to Rosa Parks. That is an insult to the brave men and women who fought for their civil rights.
    Her rights were somehow more valuable than someone else's?

    Michael

  10. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    I am not saying anything bad about OC'ers I am merely using this as an example.

    A call is received of a man with a gun in the parking lot of Denny's. "It's ok sir it is legal to open carry a firearm in this state and we will not dispatch an officer".

    5 minutes later said man openly carrying a firearm begins a shooting rampage killing 4 and then himself. The crowd goes wild "Why was an officer not sent" "This could have been prevented" Families sue the city for failure to act causing the death of a family member. If only they had dispatched an officer maybe the guy would have given up, or the officer could have eliminated the threat.

    We never know what will happen. Yes it may be a guy legally carrying but what if it is not? Should there be a 100ft rule? or Observe for 2 minutes? Just as we have the right to carry others have a right to call the police and be concerned that is their right to.

    We will just have to agree to disagree on some of this. Yes attitude is everything on both the part of the OC'er and the officer involved and we both agree "that guy" can make us all look bad.
    MY GOD YOU COULD BE COOKING METH IN YOUR HOME!!!! Maybe the police should kick in your door just to make sure the children are safe!!!

  11. #85
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Al many active shooters including the one at Denny's did not conceal anything he simply got out of his vehicle gun in hand and walked across/into the parking lot just as someone who, for whatever reason, would OC a long gun.
    If I saw ANYONE with a gun in their hand, that would raise a red flag to me. OCing does NOT include having a gun in hand. I've never even seen anyone OC a long arm by having it in hand. It's typically been slung over the back. I don't know about where you're from, but here in Michigan, having a gun in hand is considered brandishing, and IS against the law.

  12. #86
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    If you OC you know you are going to get stopped. In my mind it is fine with me if I OC to get stopped and asked for my ID. They want to make sure I am "legal". Common sense says a criminal wouldn't OC, but who knows. The person my be a nut. I can't stand it when a person OC's and then complains when they get the inevitable MWAG call and the police stop them for questioning. If you don't want the hassle, untuck your shirt and conceal your weapon like the rest of us. It is yet another reason I choose not to OC.

    When I go out to do something, I take my gun. I don't do it to make a statement or defend the 2nd amendment, I do it to defend MYSELF and those close to me.

    And for the record, I never brought up Rosa Parks but stand by my statement. What she did and a what a OC'er in modern day with a camera is doing are VERY different things. OC is legal, for Rosa, riding a bus in the front wasn't. BIG DIFFERENCE. OC'ers wouldn't OC if it meant jail time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric The Entertainer View Post
    1. Rodney King shoulda got his ***** beat for driving drunk and being' grown in a Hyundai!
    2. OJ did it!
    3. Rosa Parks ain't do nothin' but sit her black ***** down!
    Rosa Parks wasn't an activist for anything; people took it upon themselves to use her as a symbol for the civil rights movement of the 1960s.

  13. #87
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    So if you are exiting Walmart and you see they guy in the yellow shirt walking alone just as he is now I guess you go on high yellow/fuchia alert oh wait he is not a threat or is he? I am from Arkansas so if I see this guy coming across the lot dont exactly know how long he would last



    We will just have to agree to disagree. Again the topic was the ambassadors in the youtube videos. Even MOC does not support the OC of long guns and considers it to radical and not furthering the cause of OC but that is a different topic.

    I take my gun. I don't do it to make a statement or defend the 2nd amendment, I do it to defend MYSELF and those close to me.

    Smolck hit the nail on the head. OC to defend yourself not to make a statement, get into a confrontation or impress the waitress at the Western Sizzlin and damn sure not to get a video on youtube. Leave that for the OC pep rallies or the ballot box.
    Dumbledork and smolck like this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #88
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    So if you are exiting Walmart and you see they guy in the yellow shirt walking alone just as he is now I guess you go on high yellow/fuchia alert oh wait he is not a threat or is he? I am from Arkansas so if I see this guy coming across the lot dont exactly know how long he would last



    We will just have to agree to disagree. Again the topic was the ambassadors in the youtube videos. Even MOC does not support the OC of long guns and considers it to radical and not furthering the cause of OC but that is a different topic.

    I take my gun. I don't do it to make a statement or defend the 2nd amendment, I do it to defend MYSELF and those close to me.

    Smolck hit the nail on the head. OC to defend yourself not to make a statement, get into a confrontation or impress the waitress at the Western Sizzlin and damn sure not to get a video on youtube. Leave that for the OC pep rallies or the ballot box.
    Yes, I'd have a HUGE problem with the guy with AR15 type rifle in his hand. I'd likely be nervously close to pulling my pistol. That rifle should have been properly slung before he started approaching anyone. Granted, considering where he's at, and the event he appears to be going to, I'd probably have less of a problem with it, but in the event he was NOT near any sort of event like that, bad things would likely happen before he got to his intended destination.

    But, again, when I OC, I DO NOT expect to be stopped and questioned by the police, since what I'm doing is completely legal. And so far, I've never had any encounter with any LEO over my OCing a pistol. I've had more than a few with other non-LEO people who thought they knew the law, and thought I was breaking it. I even told one guy, "If you think what I'm doing is illegal, call the cops. Approaching and questioning an armed man is probably one of the dumbest things you could do." My thing is, OC works for me, if it doesn't work for you, fine, just don't try to tell me that what I'm doing is wrong.

    As for the guys in the youtube videos, I think some of them go a little too far. You can maintain your rights, and maintain a level of civility and good manners.

  15. #89
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    If you OC you know you are going to get stopped. In my mind it is fine with me if I OC to get stopped and asked for my ID. They want to make sure I am "legal". Common sense says a criminal wouldn't OC, but who knows. The person my be a nut. I can't stand it when a person OC's and then complains when they get the inevitable MWAG call and the police stop them for questioning. If you don't want the hassle, untuck your shirt and conceal your weapon like the rest of us. It is yet another reason I choose not to OC.

    When I go out to do something, I take my gun. I don't do it to make a statement or defend the 2nd amendment, I do it to defend MYSELF and those close to me.

    And for the record, I never brought up Rosa Parks but stand by my statement. What she did and a what a OC'er in modern day with a camera is doing are VERY different things. OC is legal, for Rosa, riding a bus in the front wasn't. BIG DIFFERENCE. OC'ers wouldn't OC if it meant jail time.
    I've OCed in the Lansing area for over 3 years, I've never been stopped for OCing. At least, not by a LEO.

  16. #90
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    So if you are exiting Walmart and you see they guy in the yellow shirt walking alone just as he is now I guess you go on high yellow/fuchia alert oh wait he is not a threat or is he? I am from Arkansas so if I see this guy coming across the lot dont exactly know how long he would last



    We will just have to agree to disagree. Again the topic was the ambassadors in the youtube videos. Even MOC does not support the OC of long guns and considers it to radical and not furthering the cause of OC but that is a different topic.

    I take my gun. I don't do it to make a statement or defend the 2nd amendment, I do it to defend MYSELF and those close to me.

    Smolck hit the nail on the head. OC to defend yourself not to make a statement, get into a confrontation or impress the waitress at the Western Sizzlin and damn sure not to get a video on youtube. Leave that for the OC pep rallies or the ballot box.
    Condition Fuschia?

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