Never open carried - Page 2

Never open carried

This is a discussion on Never open carried within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tcox4freedom The problem with most GGs thinking is they really don't understand the criminal mindset. One more time; Criminals look for the ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    The problem with most GGs thinking is they really don't understand the criminal mindset. One more time;
    • Criminals look for the easiest target.
    • Criminals want a target they can quickly surprise an overpower.
    • Criminals don't want a victim to fight back.
    • Criminals pick targets based on "LEAST" risk -versus- biggest reward.


    NONE of the above criteria fight into the OC profile. When a BG sees an OCer they see:
    • Someone who tells them, I'm going to be a HARD target.
    • Someone who is prepared and "most likely" will NOT be easily overpowered.
    • Someone who will most likely FIGHT back.
    • Someone who can KILL them if things go wrong (TOO MUCH RISK for twenty dollars in a wallet!)


    FURTHERMORE:
    • Most criminals are NOT murderers!
    • Why would a typical thief risk a murder charge to get twenty dollars in a wallet?
    • Why would a typical thief risk a murder charge for a pistol mthat can be bought on the street for $20?



    Sure there are exceptions to every rule. But, at least the OCer can send a CLEAR message to a BG looking for a victim. What kind of message can you send to them with your CCW?

    -

    -
    Carrying a weapon is not about sending a message. If you want to send a message to bad guy's go become a cop.

    Your above scenario's describe your typical mugger or petty thief. What about the bank robber who is already risking a boatload of jail time....what about the gang bangers that are going through initiation and murder would just be icing on the cake. What about those situations where you run into REAL criminals that would require the use of deadly force.

    Also, you might not even be the intended victim, but just some dude in a convience store that happens to get popped first because he poses a threat to the criminals goals.

    There is a distinct tactial advantage when it comes to CCW vs Open Carry and I don't think there is much argument. The element of suprise is huge.
    JerryMac likes this.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    tcox nailed it.

    And as I have said before, to all of you who only CC and think you are safe, your typical professional street criminal is very good at spotting someone who thinks they are concealing well. You are no more under the radar than someone who is OC most of the time.
    You know this how? Are you a professional street criminal?

  3. #18
    Member Array yale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    If you want to send a message to bad guy's go become a cop.
    It has nothing to do with wanting to be a cop. I have fire extinguishers in my car and home but that doesn't mean I should go become a firefighter. I have first aid kits. Doesn't mean I should become a paramedic. I mow my lawn and trim the hedges around my house. Doesn't mean I should become a landscaper. I have a skill saw and hammer. Doesn't mean I'm going to become a contractor. I am a licensed ham radio operator. Should I go out and be a radio repair technician?
    Get real.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Back to the original question. TerriLi hit on all the high points and 4freedom put flesh on the skeleton but let me add this. You would not believe how oblivious people around you are until you stop hiding your sidearm under your clothes. It has to be experienced directly to be appreciated. 95% of the time not a single person in a setting of dozens of folks notices my tool. On occasion I'll get a curious inquiry from some one that wants to know how to apply for a Georgia license. But mostly I go and come without conscious awareness of being armed. Once the initial jitters are overcome and openly carrying becomes natural people don't have the opportunity or reason to give you a close one over. You are just another person out shopping for groceries or picking up the dry cleaning. Folks from conceal only/non-traditional open carry states can pontificate about OC six ways to sunday but can't account for the phenomena because there's no substitute for real life experience.

    When it gets 80 degrees and up in the spring, I no longer want to bother with wearing more clothes than is absolutely necessary. I adopt a minimalist approach that includes oc.

    On a side note, I just can't fathom the reason that some people get all worked up over the gun carry habits of others.

    +1 yale.
    TN_Mike and tcox4freedom like this.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by yale View Post
    It has nothing to do with wanting to be a cop. I have fire extinguishers in my car and home but that doesn't mean I should go become a firefighter. I have first aid kits. Doesn't mean I should become a paramedic. I mow my lawn and trim the hedges around my house. Doesn't mean I should become a landscaper. I have a skill saw and hammer. Doesn't mean I'm going to become a contractor. I am a licensed ham radio operator. Should I go out and be a radio repair technician?
    Get real.
    So carrying a firearm is about sending a message for you?

    Let me clue you in on something you might not have realized. Nobody cares about the message you are trying to send with a firearm. Carrying a firearm is for self defense end of story. If you are carrying a firearm open with the intent to deter bad guy's or send a message that you are big and tough and willing to defend whoever then you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.

    If I am a BG and intent on committing a crime, I look at the dude Open Carrying as my first target. I know he has a gun, he doesn't know I have one. Bang bang....game over.

    To each their own though.

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    Carrying a weapon is not about sending a message. If you want to send a message to bad guy's go become a cop.

    Been there! How about you?

    Your above scenario's describe your typical mugger or petty thief. What about the bank robber who is already risking a boatload of jail time....

    Most bank robbers aren't murderers either. While many BGs will knowingly risk a prison sentence, VERY FEW will risk a DEATH sentence!

    what about the gang bangers that are going through initiation and murder would just be icing on the cake.

    Murdering an innocent victim is not a typical initiation practice for gangbangers. They get more street cred taking on rivals.

    What about those situations where you run into REAL criminals that would require the use of deadly force.

    I think you need to ask yourself that same question. I've heard far more stories about CCers running into REAL badguys and having to shoot their way out than I've heard about an OCer having to get into a gunfight.

    Also, you might not even be the intended victim, but just some dude in a convience store that happens to get popped first because he poses a threat to the criminals goals.

    Not as likely as a CCer just being some dude caught in the middle.

    There is a distinct tactial advantage when it comes to CCW vs Open Carry and I don't think there is much argument. The element of suprise is huge.

    Prove it! As a matter of FACT the tactic of "Surprise" is a huge part of the OC-vs-CC controversy.

    The element of surprise is ALAYS on the side of the aggressor because "surprise" is an OFFENSIVE tactic. As a law abiding citizen, I hope you don't go around starting confrontations. If you have any level of intelligence, you should know that you WILL be on the defensive during the onset of any confrontation.


    The Bg "MAY" be surprised when you fight back or he may not be. (Either way, your already behind the curve!)

    A CCer/OCer having ANY "tactical" advantage on the onset of a DEFENSIVE confrontation is a COMPLETE myth. (Lest we forget, the BG is the only one who decides on who will be victimized.)

    -
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  7. #22
    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post

    The element of surprise is ALAYS on the side of the aggressor because "surprise" is an OFFENSIVE tactic. As a law abiding citizen, I hope you don't go around starting confrontations. If you have any level of intelligence, you should know that you WILL be on the defensive during the onset of any confrontation.


    The Bg "MAY" be surprised when you fight back or he may not be. (Either way, your already behind the curve!)

    A CCer/OCer having ANY "tactical" advantage on the onset of a DEFENSIVE confrontation is a COMPLETE myth. (Lest we forget, the BG is the only one who decides on who will be victimized.)

    -
    So you are honestly trying to make the point that in the more likely scenario of a GG being witness to a crime than actually being victimized themselves, that there is no tactical advantage to being able to decide when you let the BG know you are armed and ready to defend yourself? I find that rather hard to believe.

    I can cherry pick scenarios that fit my narrative as well, but that does nothing to further the debate.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    How is it a myth? I am a bad guy and I know you have a gun before you know I am a bad guy. Bam your dead and your OC'd sidearm is useless.
    Not supportable by any factual cases involving civilians.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    There appear to be few absolutes in how the laws are applied. Connecticut has a "Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers," yet neither the permit nor the applicable statutes say anything about carrying concealed. Yet try to carry openly in CT, and you will most likely be arrested AND lose your permit. So there's another case where an action is "technically legal" because it is not specifically illegal, yet that action will get you in trouble.
    There hasn't been any such arrest in over two years (maybe three), and the last two were thrown out and the agencies involved are being sued. In both cases permits were restored. Folks OC in Connecticut all the time with none of the hysteria you suggest. Please get your "facts" straight.
    TN_Mike and FTG-05 like this.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    You know this how? Are you a professional street criminal?
    How do you know to the contrary? Evidence, not supposition, please.
    TN_Mike and Moga like this.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    So carrying a firearm is about sending a message for you?

    Let me clue you in on something you might not have realized. Nobody cares about the message you are trying to send with a firearm. Carrying a firearm is for self defense end of story. If you are carrying a firearm open with the intent to deter bad guy's or send a message that you are big and tough and willing to defend whoever then you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.

    If I am a BG and intent on committing a crime, I look at the dude Open Carrying as my first target. I know he has a gun, he doesn't know I have one. Bang bang....game over.

    To each their own though.
    Then why are you condemning those who choose to open carry? You can't have it both ways.
    TN_Mike, tcox4freedom and FTG-05 like this.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    Then why are you condemning those who choose to open carry? You can't have it both ways.
    Some people are just mentally challenged and lack the ability to understand the truth. Then again, some people are nothing more than trolls.

    -
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  13. #28
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    The problem with most GGs thinking is they really don't understand the criminal mindset. One more time;
    •Criminals look for the easiest target.
    •Criminals want a target they can quickly surprise an overpower.
    •Criminals don't want a victim to fight back.
    •Criminals pick targets based on "LEAST" risk -versus- biggest reward.

    NONE of the above criteria fight into the OC profile. When a BG sees an OCer they see:
    •Someone who tells them, I'm going to be a HARD target.
    •Someone who is prepared and "most likely" will NOT be easily overpowered.
    •Someone who will most likely FIGHT back.
    •Someone who can KILL them if things go wrong (TOO MUCH RISK for twenty dollars in a wallet!)
    I understand the points made by those who advocate for open carry but I have to say that those quoted above are the worst. There is far more to being and appearing to be a hard target than carrying your gun where people can see it. The last guy I saw openly carrying his weapon conveyed the message that he was the very opposite of a hard target. His very appearance was of a fat, poorly dressed guy lollygagging around in condition white with a gun in a holster hanging on his 4 O'clock
    waiting to be grabbed. Not all fit that mold of course but the main point is that your gun openly displayed doesn't mean you scare away the bad guys. There are some reasons why you may like to open carry but if you plan to use it to present yourself as a hard target you better be able to back it up. I know some "hard targets". You'll know them when you see them even if their guns are carried discreetly.
    tcox4freedom likes this.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Why do we care how other people carry? If you decide to opens carry and it makes you a target why should I care? If we care that much about other people shouldn't we force everyone to carry?
    Sometimes I believe that we are to caring. Especially when it infringes on others rights.

    Michael
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  15. #30
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Why do we care how other people carry? If you decide to opens carry and it makes you a target why should I care? If we care that much about other people shouldn't we force everyone to carry?
    Sometimes I believe that we are to caring. Especially when it infringes on others rights.

    Michael
    We don't care but everyone loves a good argument.

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