Never open carried

This is a discussion on Never open carried within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by multistage Was advised that, while technically legal, open carry around here would get you some unwanted attention in short order. You probably ...

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  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by multistage View Post
    Was advised that, while technically legal, open carry around here would get you some unwanted attention in short order. You probably will not be hauled in, but you will be put to the question. I have never open carried, and aside from LEOs, have seen it done only once. It seems to me as though it would cause more trouble than it is worth. Here in western Iowa open carry would raise lots of eyebrows. Is that just a regional thing? What are the advantages to open carry? I have carried concealed for 14 years. I prefer the anonymity that it provides. But I am curious about the reasons folks open carry. Deterrent? Public exercise of a right? Or the convenience of not caring if it is seen?
    It does offer some advantages when you are on private property or while hunting - but I personally do not believe in everyday open carry in public.

    FYI -Your law in Iowa prohibits open carry in cities or in motor vehicles UNLESS you have a concealed carry permit.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.dps.state.ia.us/asd/weapons/code72402.pdf

    724.4 Carrying weapons.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person who goes armed with a dangerous weapon concealed on or about the person, or who, within the limits of any city, goes armed with a pistol or revolver, or any loaded firearm of any kind, whether concealed or not, or who knowingly carries or transports in a vehicle a pistol or revolver, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.

    (exception ) i. A person who has in the person's possession and who displays to a peace officer on demand a valid permit to carry weapons which has been issued to the person, and whose conduct is within the limits of that permit.
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    "If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    You know this how? Are you a professional street criminal?
    No I'm not. I am a former police officer and I now work in the broadcast TV profession. I have been present during the interviews (both for police business and TV) of professional criminals and gang members. I am telling you what I have heard with my own ears, these individuals say.

    I would think that would be good enough for any normal person but I am sure it won't be for you, as you are already completely bought into the idiotic belief that open carry is wrong and anyone who does it is an attention whore. I could just as easily say that since you are so against OC, you are ashamed of the fact that you carry because you seem pathologically obsessed with hiding your gun from the general public lest you be found out to be carrying a weapon. You seem overly concerned with what the "normal" people would think of you if they knew you carried.

    But in all honestly, that is not what I believe about you. I think you are just ill informed, have uneducated opinions and are irrationally fearful of something you are afraid to do yourself. Most likely you have bought into some anti-gun LEO friend or family member who told you that OC is wrong and people who OC are just asking for trouble and will be shot first when in fact, this has never been reported to have actually happened.
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moga View Post
    Back to the original question. TerriLi hit on all the high points and 4freedom put flesh on the skeleton but let me add this. You would not believe how oblivious people around you are until you stop hiding your sidearm under your clothes. It has to be experienced directly to be appreciated. 95% of the time not a single person in a setting of dozens of folks notices my tool. On occasion I'll get a curious inquiry from some one that wants to know how to apply for a Georgia license. But mostly I go and come without conscious awareness of being armed. Once the initial jitters are overcome and openly carrying becomes natural people don't have the opportunity or reason to give you a close one over. You are just another person out shopping for groceries or picking up the dry cleaning. Folks from conceal only/non-traditional open carry states can pontificate about OC six ways to sunday but can't account for the phenomena because there's no substitute for real life experience.

    When it gets 80 degrees and up in the spring, I no longer want to bother with wearing more clothes than is absolutely necessary. I adopt a minimalist approach that includes oc.

    On a side note, I just can't fathom the reason that some people get all worked up over the gun carry habits of others.

    +1 yale.
    I'm sorry I missed this post when I initially read this thread. I could not agree more.

    let me ad that it seems odd to me, someone who does OC, why anyone who carries at all would ever be against someone open carrying. it is simply another form of carry. If you are vehemently against OC but pro CC, you are at least partially advocating an anti-gun belief system. How exactly does that help our cause?
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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    But in all honestly, that is not what I believe about you. I think you are just ill informed, have uneducated opinions and are irrationally fearful of something you are afraid to do yourself. Most likely you have bought into some anti-gun LEO friend or family member who told you that OC is wrong and people who OC are just asking for trouble and will be shot first when in fact, this has never been reported to have actually happened.
    Well said!
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    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    There hasn't been any such arrest in over two years (maybe three), and the last two were thrown out and the agencies involved are being sued. In both cases permits were restored. Folks OC in Connecticut all the time with none of the hysteria you suggest. Please get your "facts" straight.
    Well, I re-read my post and I didn't see anything there that resembled the "hysteria" you cite. Please let me know where folks OC "all the time" in CT, so I can try to catch a glimpse on my next visit back east.

    The specific case I refer to was that of one James Goldberg who was indeed arrested in Glastonbury because his weapon "printed." He had to surrender his permit in spite of the Wethersfield PD Chief appealing to the Board of Firearms Examiners on his behalf.

    In addition, there are a few other permit revocation appeals still in front of the Examiners related to "unconcealed" carry, which remain unresolved due to the backlog of cases to be heard. I can't cite specifics beyond the Goldberg action, but my information comes from Bob Crook (sure hope you know him and support his efforts) and some reliable, although indirect, sources.

    After I got my CT permit c. 1985, I open carried myself - but only in the woods and not in public. I've waved to state troopers driving by in all 4 northern counties as I exited the woods carrying openly. But would I walk down the street in West Hartford, Greenwich, Middletown or even my old town of New Milford carrying openly? No way. It might not be specifically illegal, but that doesn't mean I'd volunteer to put up with the arrest and risk of having my CT permit revoked, even if temporarily. I'll let someone with patience and deep pockets be the test case.

    Mitchell CT would be welcome to weigh in on the current "mood of the courts" on this issue in CT.

    So which cases were thrown out and which agency is being sued?

    Allow me to re-state the point of my original post: Although neither the permit nor applicable CT statutes say anything about carrying concealed, if you carry openly in public areas in Connecticut you are likely to draw unwanted attention from law enforcement.
    Smitty
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Goldberg's charges were dismissed; he got his permit back and the lawsuit against Glastonbury PD is in the mill of the 2nd circuit. I don't remember the details on the other case. And again, there has not been a single arrest for OC in the last two years, at least. Read CTGunTalk and you'll find lots of people doing OC. I've done it on several occasions and haven't drawn anyone's attention.

    The police in this state ARE wising up to the fact there is nothing illegal about OC in this state and are pretty much ignoring the people who do.

    Allow me to re-state the point of my original post: Although neither the permit nor applicable CT statutes say anything about carrying concealed, if you carry openly in public areas in Connecticut you are likely to draw unwanted attention from law enforcement.
    And you have nothing to substantiate this assertion. It hasn't happened in over two years. Crook will back that up.
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    You know this how? Are you a professional street criminal?
    I am!

    At least I've spent over 25 years training for and conducting Unconventional Warfare that required me to cause civil unrest and undermine government authority or general criminal conduct. You have a very narrow sheepdog perspective that I described in my Fool Kill First? article. You judge the criminal mind from your perspective as if they had the power of the state supporting their enterprises. Quite the contrary, they must engage in their profession with the state working against them so they must be much more conservative in their target selection.

  9. #38
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    I think it is all personal preferace, as Ky has open carry, i like the idea of concealed carry, open carry does draw attention as I have open carried on a few occasions. Concealed carry gives you more of an advantage in most situations, and if the bad guys spot you as your concealed carrying, then maybe you need to reconsider how you conceal what you carry. I carry a different gun in the winter than in the summer, just for the concealbility, and am confident in all the guns I carry, so I carry what i can conceal, but as I said, is all a matter of personal preferance. just my 4 cents..
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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Although neither the permit nor applicable CT statutes say anything about carrying concealed, if you carry openly in public areas in Connecticut you are likely to draw unwanted attention from law enforcement.
    Under what statute would they be charged? I haven't spent much time in CT but every other state I have lived in requires the DA to specify the law or statute that was violated.

    I have seen a number of situations where police have challenged people who OC. On occasions they do detain them. They usually spend about an hour in conference with their supervisors trying to find what statute to cite on the arrest order. On the few occasions they are charged, they are almost always some sort of vague Disturbing the Peace charge. The mentioned Goldberg case is a common result when things actually go that far. They almost never go to trial and the police are usually required to conduct training on current firearms law.

    Meanwhile, the OC crowd talk bad about Opinion Enforcement Officers.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamF View Post
    Under what statute would they be charged? I haven't spent much time in CT but every other state I have lived in requires the DA to specify the law or statute that was violated.
    On the occasions when it has happened, "breach of peace" was the typical charge. Basically, the misbelief that people are frightened by the mere sight of a firearm. Per Majorlk's post, no arrests have taken place for a couple of years now.
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    How do you know to the contrary? Evidence, not supposition, please.
    It is just the logical choice. It is what I would do if I were a BG. Let's be honest, for the most part the criminals you guys are describing are going to run at the first sign of trouble or a "hard target", for those folks Open Carry is going to do some good at deterring a criminal without you having to get involved. But what about the other side of that coin, the criminal that is going to kill someone (Nevada IHOP, Virgina Tech), those guys are on a mission and are going to drop the "hard targets" first and go on inflicting as much damage as they can. My point is that there really is not a tactical downside that I can see to CC, while OC does present some challenges in certain situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    Then why are you condemning those who choose to open carry? You can't have it both ways.
    I am not condemning anyone. I made a point about tactical advantage between the two types of carry and the OC crowd felt it neccessary to make a federal case about it. I have not said one bad word about OC'ing, just that I feel it hinders you in certain situations and this is nothing more than a personal opinion. People can carry however they want and have my full support, it just not something I choose to do for the above reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Some people are just mentally challenged and lack the ability to understand the truth. Then again, some people are nothing more than trolls.
    -
    Thats a bit uncalled for. No need to resort to name calling.

    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    No I'm not. I am a former police officer and I now work in the broadcast TV profession. I have been present during the interviews (both for police business and TV) of professional criminals and gang members. I am telling you what I have heard with my own ears, these individuals say.

    I would think that would be good enough for any normal person but I am sure it won't be for you, as you are already completely bought into the idiotic belief that open carry is wrong and anyone who does it is an attention whore. I could just as easily say that since you are so against OC, you are ashamed of the fact that you carry because you seem pathologically obsessed with hiding your gun from the general public lest you be found out to be carrying a weapon. You seem overly concerned with what the "normal" people would think of you if they knew you carried.

    But in all honestly, that is not what I believe about you. I think you are just ill informed, have uneducated opinions and are irrationally fearful of something you are afraid to do yourself. Most likely you have bought into some anti-gun LEO friend or family member who told you that OC is wrong and people who OC are just asking for trouble and will be shot first when in fact, this has never been reported to have actually happened.
    I am not against OC in general, just against it for me personally. Is anyone who questions OC fully against it to you folks? This is why the OC community has such a hard time getting support, you are all so rabid in your support for it that you jump all over anyone who dares question it. I would rethink your approach to winning people over. I will support anyone who chooses to carry in whatever fashion they wish regardless of my personal feelings about the way they carry. I fully support your right to Open Carry, but when it comes to winning me over and getting me on board with OC you are going about it the entirely wrong way.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    :SNIP:
    I am not against OC in general, just against it for me personally. Is anyone who questions OC fully against it to you folks? This is why the OC community has such a hard time getting support, you are all so rabid in your support for it that you jump all over anyone who dares question it. I would rethink your approach to winning people over. I will support anyone who chooses to carry in whatever fashion they wish regardless of my personal feelings about the way they carry. I fully support your right to Open Carry, but when it comes to winning me over and getting me on board with OC you are going about it the entirely wrong way.
    This is very reasonable and much in line with my thinking. I cannot say I would never open carry but I am more comfortable with keeping it concealed around others.
    The reason you see strong reactions from open carry supporters is they presume you are saying that they should not be able to open carry.
    When most people say that they are against something they mean that others should not be able to do it. I support other peoples right to do many things that I would never personally want to do.

    The trouble comes when someone proclaims that they are against something. Then they refuse to support others rights to do it. Or worse actively work to take that right away.

    Michael

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    On the occasions when it has happened, "breach of peace" was the typical charge. Basically, the misbelief that people are frightened by the mere sight of a firearm. Per Majorlk's post, no arrests have taken place for a couple of years now.
    Open carry by a permit holder has been declared by court ruling and the BFPE (I can't cite the case) NOT to be BoP in Connecticut. That helped the situation considerably.

    BoP is one of those 'catch-all" charges when a LEO can't find anything actually illegal to charge someone with. Most are thrown out in plea bargaining, no matter what other charges are filed.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    It is just the logical choice. It is what I would do if I were a BG. Let's be honest, for the most part the criminals you guys are describing are going to run at the first sign of trouble or a "hard target", for those folks Open Carry is going to do some good at deterring a criminal without you having to get involved.
    This illustrates your inability to understand the criminal mindset. The reason he is a criminal is because he does not want to take on the hard task and earn an honest wage. The criminal, by very nature, takes the easy way out whenever it is presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    But what about the other side of that coin, the criminal that is going to kill someone (Nevada IHOP, Virgina Tech), those guys are on a mission and are going to drop the "hard targets" first and go on inflicting as much damage as they can. My point is that there really is not a tactical downside that I can see to CC, while OC does present some challenges in certain situations.
    These people may have a plan to eliminate a know police officer or security guard but are typically too target focused to see if anyone else may be armed but the reality of these events are that they plan to avoid police and security and strike in their absence so the presence of an armed civilian would still be a deterrent.
    tcox4freedom and Majorlk like this.

  16. #45
    Member Array SamF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    The reason you see strong reactions from open carry supporters is they presume you are saying that they should not be able to open carry.
    Michael
    This may be true for some but not for all. Most, if not all, of my comments in this thread have been directed, not at those who say it shouldn't be legal but, at those who think we're fools because it's a tactical disadvantage. I am attempting to correct some logical fallacies. The argument always comes from the same sheepdog mentality with the declaration, That's how I would do it. The very reason why they would do it differently is also why they are not criminals.
    Majorlk likes this.

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