Never open carried

This is a discussion on Never open carried within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by All_Business I don't want to tread on anyone's beliefs but...here we go. Open carrying is unnecessary but however, it is a gun ...

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  1. #61
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Business View Post
    I don't want to tread on anyone's beliefs but...here we go. Open carrying is unnecessary but however, it is a gun law in our favor and ill always strongly support it.
    The use of that word during a conversation about firearms is quite revealing, in spite of the proclamation that follows. I am reminded by your comments to be grateful to live, not by birth but by choice, in a stronghold red state where gun rights are fiercely protected in the General Assembly. What is unnecessary for some is quite the opposite for others. Thus is the beauty of freedom; to choose as one sees fit, not so that others that suffer from an irrational fear of inanimate objects may find relief from their disease at the expense of the responsible, law abiding citizen who takes full responsibility for their protection.

    Speaking of rule books, is there one that establishes what people feel and think at the sight of a gun? Does every single citizen have the same mindset? Because your comments may be an acceptable description for the people of Killadelphia but are far from a universal truism. Some one from a part of the country far, far removed from yours has already stated in this thread that the sight of a gun in his locale doesn't cause the negative assoiation that they cause in yours, but I guess that didn't register, huh? The same for your suggestions of dress for comfort while carrying. There is a area of the United States that exists south of the Mason-Dixon and west of the Mississippi whose average temperatures differ drastically from those typically found in PA. They may find the mode of dress that is comfortable to you unbearable for their climate. Yet let's set all that aside for a moment. Beyond appeasing those people with irrational fears who, in all likelihood, would stop at nothing to force everyone around them to adopt to their lifestyle and value system in an attempt to ease their internal anxieties, why should a man's gun be hidden, other than to conceal the felonious intention a criminal's heart? What about it is so damn shameful that it must be covered up? In large swaths of this country where people are found that, for generations upon generations, have used the tool for sustenanace as much as protection, there's no reason at all. The gun is an object that instills fear no more than any other tool in the proverbial working man's shed. That may come as a shock to some, especially those from large northern cities, but is as right as rain for others.

    Sometimes its difficult to accept that Philadelphia was at the center of this country's fight for freedom from British tyranny. To say that the city bares no resemblance to the place it was is an understatement. Judging by your comments, I can't help but to think you seem to be right where you belong.
    2nd Amendment: because personal violence never makes an appointment.
    Evil resides in the heart of the individual, not in inanimate objects.
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  3. #62
    Member Array All_Business's Avatar
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    You're crossing the line between arguing and insulting. "Killadelphia"..really? I guess insulting where someone resides is the first rule of debate for you. When the number of murders are compared to the population; who really has the greater murder rate? In all of my comments I never coerce my beliefs upon others. I'll always remind people that it's only my opinon according to my experiences.

    If you arent able to expand peoples views, and open their eyes to other possibilities without being a condescending, pompous ass, then don't try at all. Especially with me.
    "When that gun comes out of that holster; it's business time." -Chris Costa

  4. #63
    Member Array All_Business's Avatar
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    SHOCKING AUDIO: Philadelphia Police violate rights of open carrier at gunpoint - YouTube...

    Cops have a huge head thats filled with power. Some of them are ignorant to the same law they swore to protect. I CHOOSE not to risk dealing with this everytime I open carry. I don't know if you have ever had a loaded gun pointed at you but I have, and it's the scariest thing that can ever happen to anyone. If 5 and a half lbs of pressure was applied to that cops index finger...there goes Mark's life...his LIFE! No respawn, no restart button, game over, good night. So when im asked if open carrying is worth it to me, the answer is no.
    "When that gun comes out of that holster; it's business time." -Chris Costa

  5. #64
    Member Array EsCrasston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Business View Post
    You're crossing the line between arguing and insulting. "Killadelphia"..really? I guess insulting where someone resides is the first rule of debate for you. When the number of murders are compared to the population; who really has the greater murder rate? In all of my comments I never coerce my beliefs upon others. I'll always remind people that it's only my opinon according to my experiences.

    If you arent able to expand peoples views, and open their eyes to other possibilities without being a condescending, pompous ass, then don't try at all. Especially with me.
    Quote Originally Posted by All_Business View Post
    SHOCKING AUDIO: Philadelphia Police violate rights of open carrier at gunpoint - YouTube...

    Cops have a huge head thats filled with power. Some of them are ignorant to the same law they swore to protect. I CHOOSE not to risk dealing with this everytime I open carry. I don't know if you have ever had a loaded gun pointed at you but I have, and it's the scariest thing that can ever happen to anyone. If 5 and a half lbs of pressure was applied to that cops index finger...there goes Mark's life...his LIFE! No respawn, no restart button, game over, good night. So when im asked if open carrying is worth it to me, the answer is no.
    Do you realize what you just did? You stereotyped and insulted every LEO. While it is well known that there are sub-par police officers, as there are people in every profession, I think it is completely unfair and unreasonable to include everyone in that field as the basis of your insult.

    It is amazing how this thread, and all others like it on every forum turn into a huge argument between pro-OC and against-OC, and why one side is wrong and blah blah blah. Bottom line is, there is no possible way everyone is going to agree with one side or the other. When an OP asks for an opinion, there is no need for it to turn into WWIII. Give your opinion respectfully and ACCEPT OTHERS OPINIONS RESPECTFULLY with the same courtesy.

    Personally, I choose both OC and CC depending on the situation. That is MY choice, just like it is everyone elses' choice to carry in the manner they so choose. If some of you have such a hatred for those who OC, why not take it further than trolling on these forums and attacking those who do. Mind you, there are many who may be against it and keep their opinions respectful or to themselves, which is completely acceptable. It is those who come out and insult those who don't support their same point of view that cause problems.
    ”The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose.”
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  6. #65
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    I meant for the first line to say SOME before COPS but in the heat of the moment i didnt realize the typo till AFTER i posted the thread, I knew it was going to bite me in the ass. my best friend is a cop and to trash talk all cops would be to trash talk him. I know not EVERY SINGLE cop has a huge head
    "When that gun comes out of that holster; it's business time." -Chris Costa

  7. #66
    Member Array All_Business's Avatar
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    Point is, I don't want to get on anyones bad side here. I joined this site to see what it was all about. After seeing how insightful and informative everyone was I was glad I found and I respect everyones opinions on here, even yours Moga. It's become pretty evident to me that this pro-life, pro-choice type of argument is pointless to me, and only travels in circles.
    "When that gun comes out of that holster; it's business time." -Chris Costa

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Open carry in Madison Wisconsin and the police will beat the heck out of you. And DA will ignore it.

  9. #68
    Member Array KeythL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Open carry in Madison Wisconsin and the police will beat the heck out of you. And DA will ignore it.
    Why haven't you sued them? If the DA won't uphold the law there is alway the ability to make it too costly, via civil suit, to abuse their power. While I don't OC I totally support those that do. The pendulum of public norms with respect to firearms is currently swinging the the direction I happen to agree with. I think the more people OC without incident the better it will be for everyone.
    Maine CCP
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  10. #69
    Member Array gunsnroses's Avatar
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    Concealed carry can accomplish a few tactical scenarios, depending on your mindset. But it is of my opinion that its major purpose is to shield your firearm from the eyes of the everyday public.

    Its just like the parent telling the child..."I don't approve and I don't like it, so don't let me see it."

    Each person should have the freedom to choose and not be mandated to keep "that scary looking thing" hidden.

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeythL View Post
    Why haven't you sued them? If the DA won't uphold the law there is alway the ability to make it too costly, via civil suit, to abuse their power. While I don't OC I totally support those that do. The pendulum of public norms with respect to firearms is currently swinging the the direction I happen to agree with. I think the more people OC without incident the better it will be for everyone.
    You can not win in a Dane county court. The only cas that was won so far was videoed.

  12. #71
    Distinguished Member Array OhioCatter's Avatar
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    OC or CC it is up to each individual. I will support either way.I'm sure someone out there has OC'd right by someone who was CC'ing and neither even took a second look at each other. People don't go around looking at each others mid sections that closly every day. In my opinion I think thoes who have been seen OC'ing are not by adults but kids. Kids are always looking around at thigs. Useually we are in conversation, thought, or to much of a hurry to see everything that goes on around us. My choice will be CC but I may OC a time or two just to see what happens. I love and enjoy good debates as long as it is kept without name calling.

  13. #72
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    They knew they were on camera on this one but most of the time they throw the person down and get rough with them. read the quotes at the end. A few DA's a Chief of police have made it clear if any CC ever flashes or pulls the weapon for any reason they are going down and they will find a reason to arrest them.
    POLICE STATE: Cops vow to put citizens down (Milwaukee News) - YouTube

  14. #73
    Ex Member Array NYCrulesU's Avatar
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    I open carry daily and have had no problems with LE. Ever.

    It has more to do with where you live than OC vs CC. Here, OC is not uncommon so nobody freaks out. In the north, and yes..I am from the north so I know what I am speaking about...most politicians, LEO's and anti's want gun rights restricted. Even though CCW permits are at an all time high and OC is becoming more accepted...there are those who will fight it every day to keep things the way they have been. So evey gun someone sees they call the police with a MWG call.

    Eventually the playing field will be leveled. Eventually.

  15. #74
    Member Array DocPMD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Why do we care how other people carry? If you decide to opens carry and it makes you a target why should I care? If we care that much about other people shouldn't we force everyone to carry?
    Sometimes I believe that we are to caring. Especially when it infringes on others rights.

    Michael
    I don't care in the sense that I believe people ought to do what they want to (within the law).

    I am interested in how people carry because perhaps their point of view may inform and convince me to change my choice/habits.

    I would guess that very few here "care" in the context you present it. I believe that the majority are simply attempting to present the facts from their point of view, and perhaps convince others that their approach is better.

    FWIW, I haven't heard a compelling argument to change from CC to OC. But that's my choice/opinion, isn't it? I'm sure nobody here "cares" one way or the other.

    Doc

  16. #75
    Member Array KeythL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    They knew they were on camera on this one but most of the time they throw the person down and get rough with them. read the quotes at the end. A few DA's a Chief of police have made it clear if any CC ever flashes or pulls the weapon for any reason they are going down and they will find a reason to arrest them.
    POLICE STATE: Cops vow to put citizens down (Milwaukee News) - YouTube
    Given their stated position and your personal experience, anyone that carries OC or CC in Wisconsin (and frankly anywhere else it's leagal to do so) should carry a personal recording device (I carry two...an eight hour audio recorder and a four hour video recorder). As long as you're maintaining situational awareness it's easy to activate the video\audio recorder if you think things might go south (I leave the audio recorder on all the time when carrying in public). It will resolve he said/she said issues.
    Maine CCP
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