Another OC acknowledged as a deterrent.

This is a discussion on Another OC acknowledged as a deterrent. within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Bashing a guy from another forum on this forum? Check. Bagging on open carry in the open carry subforum? Check. Denying that open carry deters ...

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Thread: Another OC acknowledged as a deterrent.

  1. #31
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Bashing a guy from another forum on this forum? Check.
    Bagging on open carry in the open carry subforum? Check.
    Denying that open carry deters crime, when it obviously does? Check.

    Congratulations, Defensivecarry.com!
    jag06 likes this.

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  3. #32
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    So the post about the OC'er having his gun taken away and killed with it apparently disproves your proof that OC deters crime? So now I raise you the Waffle House robbery attempt and call with the dead guy having his gun taken away from him.

    This topic has been hashed and rehashed. A common low threat thug may be deterred by someone carrying a firearm. A person determined to commit a crime does not care and will commit said crime anyways with the person OC'ing being the first target/victim.

    As has been stated a firearm introduced into some situations can go bad quickly but the fact remains that if everyone can see it the process tends to speeed up. If you OC you better have your head on a swivel and think about every little thing. Body positioning, your enviroment, your loved ones around you, people in general around you, the bad guys, the good guys it all comes into play.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    Bashing a guy from another forum on this forum? Check.
    Bagging on open carry in the open carry subforum? Check.
    Denying that open carry deters crime, when it obviously does? Check.

    Congratulations, Defensivecarry.com!
    No one is bashing anyone. We are discussing the pros and cons of a method of carry to attempt to give a full circle of thought. That's what we do around here, not stroke each other for a feel good effect.

    Checkmate
    JDE101 likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  5. #34
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    No one is bashing anyone. We are discussing the pros and cons of a method of carry to attempt to give a full circle of thought. That's what we do around here, not stroke each other for a feel good effect.

    Checkmate
    No, we're not discussing anything. A discussion would mean that people are making salient points on the subject, while listening to opposing or supporting points, and learning from them. I don't seem to recall ever seeing threads like that in the open carry forum here. What I do see is someone asking a question relating to open carry, or relating an experience or story about open carry, to which the usual suspects enter the thread and proceed to pick apart everything that's been posted with statements about tactical advantages, political correctness, and submitting to unlawful demands by pricks in uniform. In short, the anti-open carry guys sit around and stroke each other for a feel-good effect.

    Uno!


  6. #35
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    So, besides your disdain for an opposing view, what exactly are you attempting to add that will be beneficial to the thread?
    tacman605 likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  7. #36
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    Wow I guess he does not like folks that do not agree with his thoughts, he apparently does not like the Po Po, 5-0 or any of the pricks in uniform so he just gets butt hurt all the way around I guess. Acting like a 5 year old who does not get his way is surely not the way to get your point across.

    Just an opinion
    wmhawth and glockman10mm like this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  8. #37
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    No, we're not discussing anything. A discussion would mean that people are making salient points on the subject, while listening to opposing or supporting points, and learning from them. I don't seem to recall ever seeing threads like that in the open carry forum here. What I do see is someone asking a question relating to open carry, or relating an experience or story about open carry, to which the usual suspects enter the thread and proceed to pick apart everything that's been posted with statements about tactical advantages, political correctness, and submitting to unlawful demands by pricks in uniform. In short, the anti-open carry guys sit around and stroke each other for a feel-good effect.

    Uno!

    You havent been a member here long enough to remember any of the other threads. You have some very professional people explaining there side of the issue, you might want to listen, because at this point your coming across a little immature and not so knowledgeable. My .02

    And just in case you missed it....http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/n...ns-ar-1510369/
    JDE101 likes this.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    You havent been a member here long enough to remember any of the other threads. You have some very professional people explaining there side of the issue, you might want to listen, because at this point your coming across a little immature and not so knowledgeable. My .02

    And just in case you missed it....Teen homicide suspects have criminal histories | Richmond Times-Dispatch
    I've been lurking longer than I've been posting, and there's a search function that allows me to go and read past threads, which I've been doing. I see few "professionals", mostly internet heroes who claim to have law enforcement and/or military training, throwing out the same old arguments, without giving any actual thought to what they post. Perhaps I appear to be immature, because the posts I respond to appear to be condescending, at best.

    As for the story posted in the link, I see nothing wrong with the actions of either the open carrier, or the police he talked to. The actions of Officer Harless were disgusting, to say the least, and it's commendable that the officers would want to distance themselves from and officer, and possibly an entire department, that treats armed citizens with such naked hostility. If I were a police officer, I would denigrate the Canton, PD, as well. I guess that violates the Book Of Cop Rules, huh?

    And no, I don't hate the "po-po". In fact, I have a number of friends who serve as officers in my state, as municipal officers, sheriff's deputies, and state troopers, who are all fine examples of what LEOs should be. They all feel the same way about Officer Harless as any American should: disgusted, and embarrassed.

    I closing, you conveniently ignored the last two points I made:

    Bagging on open carry in the open carry subforum? Check.
    Denying that open carry deters crime, when it obviously does? Check.
    I normally conceal, but I also do open carry on occasion. I don't conceal for a tactical advantage, I conceal because of my job; if it became public knowledge that I walk around armed, it could hurt me professionally. I open carry when I'm not in my town, or when I attend open carry get togethers. I've noticed that while the rules are enforced pretty strictly in other subforums here, trolls are allowed to stir up trouble, for the sake of getting threads closed, I think. I don't mind having rules enforced, as long as it's done fairly. Let it be known, also, that I've criticized some open carriers, who only do it for the attention, or to intimidate people.

    I could care less how I may come across, because even if I were a tenured professor at Princeton, having an opinion contrary to the anti-open carry crowd will be deemed as "immature".

  10. #39
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    I've been lurking longer than I've been posting, and there's a search function that allows me to go and read past threads, which I've been doing. I see few "professionals", mostly internet heroes who claim to have law enforcement and/or military training, throwing out the same old arguments, without giving any actual thought to what they post. Perhaps I appear to be immature, because the posts I respond to appear to be condescending, at best.

    As for the story posted in the link, I see nothing wrong with the actions of either the open carrier, or the police he talked to. The actions of Officer Harless were disgusting, to say the least, and it's commendable that the officers would want to distance themselves from and officer, and possibly an entire department, that treats armed citizens with such naked hostility. If I were a police officer, I would denigrate the Canton, PD, as well. I guess that violates the Book Of Cop Rules, huh?

    And no, I don't hate the "po-po". In fact, I have a number of friends who serve as officers in my state, as municipal officers, sheriff's deputies, and state troopers, who are all fine examples of what LEOs should be. They all feel the same way about Officer Harless as any American should: disgusted, and embarrassed.

    I closing, you conveniently ignored the last two points I made:



    I normally conceal, but I also do open carry on occasion. I don't conceal for a tactical advantage, I conceal because of my job; if it became public knowledge that I walk around armed, it could hurt me professionally. I open carry when I'm not in my town, or when I attend open carry get togethers. I've noticed that while the rules are enforced pretty strictly in other subforums here, trolls are allowed to stir up trouble, for the sake of getting threads closed, I think. I don't mind having rules enforced, as long as it's done fairly. Let it be known, also, that I've criticized some open carriers, who only do it for the attention, or to intimidate people.

    I could care less how I may come across, because even if I were a tenured professor at Princeton, having an opinion contrary to the anti-open carry crowd will be deemed as "immature".
    The link I posted has nothing to do with Harless. and everything to do with OC not deterring crime, like most think...

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    The link I posted has nothing to do with Harless. and everything to do with OC not deterring crime, like most think...
    I know, I was referring to the link the OP provided. I never claimed that open carry deters crime 110% of the time, I just believe, through my own experiences, and the experiences of others, that it does a great deal more to deter a crime than an unseen weapon can. I also know that, by reading various news stories over the years, many people who conceal carry, and find themselves having to present a weapon, stand a fair chance of being disarmed, because of various reasons. The number of people who open carry getting disarmed seems almost non-existant, outside this one story, and another from Wisconsin. So, statistically, people who CC stand a greater chance of having their gun taken from them than people who OC.

    I'm curious how a weapon hidden from view can deter a mugging. If a mugger can't see that you're armed, he'll try and mug you, right? At which point, you'll have to draw, and maybe point it at him, right? You didn't deter a mugging, you interrupted one that was taking place. So, concealing a gun isn't a deterrent. If the same mugger sees you very obviously carrying your .357, and decides to leave the area, rather than attempt something foolish, then wouldn't you say the sight of said .357 was a deterrent?

    So, which is a "tactical advantage"? Being forced to pull a gun from a holster, or not having to touch it at all?

    Maybe people who insist concealed carry is better want to have the opportunity to point a gun at someone. It seems that way with a small minority.

  12. #41
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    I know, I was referring to the link the OP provided. I never claimed that open carry deters crime 110% of the time, I just believe, through my own experiences, and the experiences of others, that it does a great deal more to deter a crime than an unseen weapon can. I also know that, by reading various news stories over the years, many people who conceal carry, and find themselves having to present a weapon, stand a fair chance of being disarmed, because of various reasons. The number of people who open carry getting disarmed seems almost non-existant, outside this one story, and another from Wisconsin. So, statistically, people who CC stand a greater chance of having their gun taken from them than people who OC.

    I'm curious how a weapon hidden from view can deter a mugging. If a mugger can't see that you're armed, he'll try and mug you, right? At which point, you'll have to draw, and maybe point it at him, right? You didn't deter a mugging, you interrupted one that was taking place. So, concealing a gun isn't a deterrent. If the same mugger sees you very obviously carrying your .357, and decides to leave the area, rather than attempt something foolish, then wouldn't you say the sight of said .357 was a deterrent?

    So, which is a "tactical advantage"? Being forced to pull a gun from a holster, or not having to touch it at all?

    Maybe people who insist concealed carry is better want to have the opportunity to point a gun at someone. It seems that way with a small minority.
    Quick question, How many OCers are there nation wide? If its close to the CCer count Ill give you your statistics, if not. Your just blowing pink smoke.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Quick question, How many OCers are there nation wide? If its close to the CCer count Ill give you your statistics, if not. Your just blowing pink smoke.
    Dumbledork don't do no drugs. You're still ignoring everything else I've stated, though.

  14. #43
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    I think he scared the crap out of him when he stared right back at him, most BG's don't like it when people don't cower to them.
    The second guy scene something that he sensed may possibly hamper there future earning ability, A non-thug with a gun.
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  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    Dumbledork don't do no drugs. You're still ignoring everything else I've stated, though.
    No Im not ignoring what you have stated. What you have stated has been IMO debunked. However I still have the question, How many OCers nation wide?

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    No Im not ignoring what you have stated. What you have stated has been IMO debunked. However I still have the question, How many OCers nation wide?
    Hold on, let me call up Open Carry HQ and ask the boss, he should know.

    You are pretty much ignoring everything I pointed out. The guy the OP was talking about averted a crime from occurring, because he was visibly armed. If you can't accept that, I can't help you. Go ahead and ignore facts being presented to you. Because it makes me look immature. LOL

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