Does open carry stop criminals... - Page 2

Does open carry stop criminals...

This is a discussion on Does open carry stop criminals... within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sometimes it can deter, however concealed carry never does. Sad loss, and story for sure....

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    Sometimes it can deter, however concealed carry never does.

    Sad loss, and story for sure.


  2. #17
    Member Array JerryMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I personally consider open carry amateur carry.
    C'mon, you need to eat more cheese '' which is brain food '' ..... to me open carry has it's place, and I do not feel like an amateur when I open carry, just as I do not feel like an amateur when I CC . But I feel every law abididng American citizen should have the right to carry either way, open or concealed. I did see an interesting video on utube about a pancake kydex holster, gonna try to look for it, how it had the retention feature, but the whole holster was ripped off the side of the person, left the paddle in his pants and the gun in the BG '' his friend for demos'' hands..... but i think awareness of your surroundings goes a long way in either open or concealed carry.
    "Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is" .. Outlaw, Josey Wales....... WAS HE AN AMATEUR
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jag06 View Post
    Truly a sad story. I believe this is the first actually incident of an OC'er being robbed, and tragically killed with his gun. There are some people out there that are not afraid to get in a fight, however most criminals out there only pray on weak victims. There are still far more stories out there of OC preventing crime there than is of OC'ers being targeted for their gun. This tragically sounds to me like a case of the wrong holster and lack of training. The benefits of OC'ing still outweigh the risk to me. I will continue to OC for as long as it is comfortable for me.
    What kind of holster was the victim wearing, and what mention was made of his training level? Police officers get shot with their own firearms every year.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Sometimes it can deter, however concealed carry never does.

    Sad loss, and story for sure.
    Source?

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    According to court papers, Smith took Tyler's gun during a struggle and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith inside the store. Authorities said they could not confirm that Tyler was killed with his own gun until they get the results of forensics testing. They also are awaiting test results to show whether the gun used to kill Tyler was the one used to shoot Cosby.

    Cosby, 32, was sitting with a woman in a car in the 1700 block of Edwards Avenue about 2:30 a.m. last Saturday, when Smith walked up and tried to rob them, according to court documents. The woman hurried out of the car and heard gunshots as she ran. Police found Cosby dead in the vehicle.
    1. This dog needs to be put down.
    2. Retention ... people with a cc have also gotten their guns taken away from them. They don't know whether Tyler was shot with his own gun, or their gun. They may have gone in to rob it and wanted to disarm him quickly when they saw the gun. Retention holster is one thing, but it's not all there is, not letting someone near it, and knowing several other techniques to retain your firearm and severely hurting them if they try to get it is a good thing. LEO's have lost their guns in struggles for retention & been killed as well. Just because you CC, if it leaves your holster , it can still be taken away from you .... it happens with LEO's too.

    3. Don't run into the dang store "after" them if you are unarmed, and they are ...... how dumb can that be ? Use your brains and don't go by the testerone or adrenaline levels.

    No one is allowed to be behind me, or very close to gun side, CC or open... wouldn't make any difference to me. I don't want anyone who could prevent me from drawing, interfere with me drawing, nor attack me from that side. I've told more than one idiot when I shifted , moved , or changed my position..... "you get behind me one more time & we're going to have some very serious issues" . I stand sideways (out of years of habit) at checkout lines at stores, with my back to the candy display, etc.

    This sounds like a bad incident where there are many unknowns, and to me ... is not an example of anything other than, keep control of your gun at all times, and don't be stupid by chasing an armed man (who's hell-bent on violence to get what he wants) while you aren't.
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  6. #21
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    The big thing is you have to be more aware when you OC plain and simple. As eagle noted body position, awareness of your surroundings even while doing something as mundane as standing in the checkout line can all make the difference between life and death literally.

    You also have to ask yourself when you OC or CC for that matter can you physically defend your handgun from attack? Not knowing all the variables in the OP it is hard to decipher what exactly happened but this is a perfect example of the type of criminal that I and others have preached about, the ones that simply don't care and will do whatever to accomplish their goal. Obviously they were not deterred in the least by the fact the guy had a gun on, they wanted the shiny thing on his belt more than he wanted to keep it.

    In regards to holsters there are some paddle holsters that have been on youtube that anchor so well to the belt that a person grabbing the holster and twisting has literally ripped the holster from the paddle. I am not sure of the brand so wont guess about it. Remember though you increase retention you increase the requirment for practice. I remember I and several others bought Safariland SSIII holsters and some did not heed the warning of spending 12 hours or more practicing and perfecting the technique for the draw. Some either called or showed up for work asking how to get the gun out of the holster as once they put it in they simply could not make it work. Just because you have the latest, greatest in retention holsters does not mean the BG's dont already have the technique to disarm ready to go.

    They are all simply tools gang, just tools. You not your holster or latest fad are the only thing that can keep you from being disarmed.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    There are a lot of folks that think having one on your hip is a deterrent to crime, at least thats what I have been reading. It would seem to me, that BGs are not scared and OCers could be targeted more. This specific case is the main reason I do not open carry.
    Though I can't find the particular articles right this moment I have read articles of CCW carriers having their guns taken away from them. I have also read articles that confirm that someone open carrying deterred a crime. The Kennesaw GA Waffle House story is just one. I have open carried for years. Several of them in Memphis TN, one of the top violent crime and gang cities in the USA. I was never targeted. Just my personal experience. However, I will say, I never OC with anything less than at least a Level II security holster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I personally consider open carry amateur carry.
    Ridiculous statement that barely deserves a response.
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  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Sometimes it can deter, however concealed carry never does.
    And sometime it can make you a target, however concealed carry never does.

    Yeah, see what I did there?

    Neither is right and both are correct.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsccw View Post
    Get ready for the avalanche.....
    Yeah, that was a pretty arrogant statement.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Yeah, that was a pretty arrogant statement.
    It's not the first time. My past answers will have to stand because I am not taking much time on this one.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  11. #26
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Instead of getting into another OC vs. CC debate, which never reaches a resolution and always gets threads locked, how about we focus on the incident, and try and learn something from it?

    1. We don't know what kind of holster he had.
    2. We don't know what level of retention training he had.
    3. We don't know the state of his situational awareness.
    4. We DO know that it's never a good idea to chase down and armed thug if you're unarmed. So we know the victim made one stupid mistake. We don't know if he made three more, or if it was the only one, so don't judge him.

    Keep in mind that many LEO are killed every year by their own sidearms by violent resistors, and it's a known fact that LEO have at least Level II retention holsters and some sort of handgun retention training. It's also a fact that people who conceal carry can and do get robbed, and can have their gun stolen if someone gets the drop on them. Taking all this into account, and assuming the victim wasn't a total fool, we can see that Murphy's Law can be applied here. You can do everything right, and still get killed. Even Muhammed Ali lost a fight once.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Open carry or concealed carry........a gun is not a talisman that wards off evil!

    No matter how you carry, your decisions should be dictated by knowledge, training, experience, empirical data, and historical fact...........not a political agenda of a political activist. There is absolutely nothing wrong with open carry as long as you apply sound thinking and common sense. But there is a definite danger when all of the above is dumped and dumped on by a political activist that is pushing a "lowest common denominator" approach suggesting that some how there is no danger of every being targeted because of a visible gun.

    Use your head, educate yourself, and get quality training.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweatnbullets View Post
    Open carry or concealed carry........a gun is not a talisman that wards off evil!
    Sweatnbullets is correct.

    I'm sure there are anecdotal accounts of times where merely open carrying a pistol has been the determining factor in a criminal deciding not to target someone for robbery or assault... But for the most part, it's the demeanor of the individual and the way a person "carries their self" that bad guys look at when "targeting" a victim.

    In this particular story, it appears that having a gun carried openly did not dissuade the bad guy in the least. (I imagine because everything else about him "telegraphed" as being an easy target).

    He got "punked" by a 16 year old punk, and ended up getting killed.
    carracer likes this.
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    The way I see it, the victim made at least 2 mistakes.

    1. His SA was apparently off. He should have been aware of everyone else that came into that store, and should have been alert for anyone approaching him.

    2. He chased the BGs AFTER they took his weapon!! Hello? Did they steal his brain too? I hate to be critical of the dead, but that was just plain stupid, unless he had a back up weapon.

  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    I open and conceal carry both above my left front pocket in a cross draw position. To get my gun they are going to have to meet me head on where I can see them and they will not get my gun that way.
    carracer likes this.

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