"See That Man? He's Going To Shoot You!"

This is a discussion on "See That Man? He's Going To Shoot You!" within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by wmhawth The lady was an idiot of course. As for me I see no need to try to educate idiots in a ...

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Thread: "See That Man? He's Going To Shoot You!"

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    The lady was an idiot of course. As for me I see no need to try to educate idiots in a place like Walmart.
    A mentor of mine once counseled me about attempting to educate idiots, "There is no use trying to teach a pig to sing. It sounds terrible and it really irritates the pig."

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  3. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stetson View Post
    Would't it been easier to just tie your coat around your waist or put your carry piece in your coat pocket.I feel for folks that can't afford a small pocket gun as it took me 10 years and I bitched at the cost of the Ruger 380 and the 22 5 shot deranger I have just for that
    reason.

    No, it wouldn't have. Have you ever tried to tie the sleeves of a puffy, feather/down lined coat? It's damn near impossible to do. That said, I do open carry at times, and although I avoid it at places like Walmart, I'm not averse to it. As far as putting my gun in my pocket, I carry a full sized 1911 every day, so...no, pocket carry is out of the question for me. I'll have the money for a smaller back up gun later this coming spring, for when I absolutely need to conceal. Of course, leaving the gun at home or in the truck is NOT an option for me, ever. I carry when I'm awake, and only disarm when I go to places I can't legally carry, like a courthouse. Luckily, in PA, courthouses are required to check a person's gun for them, so I don't have to leave it in the car. I've had a gun stolen before because of that, so I'm never doing that again.

    I can actually conceal the 1911 well enough when I need to. I have a nice IWB holster that makes it disappear under a tee shirt. But as I was wearing a coat, I wasn't anticipating needing to use it, so I used a Gould & Godrich leather pancake holster with a thumbsnap. Had I'd know Walmart was gonna crank the heat up to tropical levels, I would have used the other one, or gone to Target instead.

  4. #108
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    I never worry about carrying in a Wallmart, either open or cc. It's the parking lots that concern me!
    Dumbledork likes this.

  5. #109
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    I don't see this as an OC issue either. It would be the equivalent of someone saying, "If you don't behave, I'm going to have that lady run you over with her car." It's inappropriate and I would say something as well.

    Parents who threaten their children with outrageous violence or neglect get absolutely NO respect from me. All they are doing is teaching their child that they are a liar and have no better way to control the situation but come up with some fantastical fallacy. They don't even think about how it might actually effect their child's perception of life.

    I once saw a mother threaten her child with a monster who would come and kidnap him and kill him if he didn't follow her into a store.

    It also annoys the living crap out of me when parents say, "Fine, then I'm just going to leave you here," when their kids don't come when told... NO you are not going to leave your child.

    If someone were to use me as a threat to their children I would say something as well. It doesn't matter if it's because I have a gun or anything else. I won't let myself be used to frighten or threaten...especially not by some stranger.

  6. #110
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    I might have considered reporting her to Child Protective Services. I certainly would have said something, if not to the mom, then to the kid. When I was a kid, I was threatened a number of times with weapons.... knives, guns. It's scary. I definitely would have made it clear that she was completely out of line to threaten to make someone else shoot her kid. To me, that's not escalating a situation.... it might be diffusing it, as far as the kid is concerned.

  7. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post

    I don't see this as an OC issue either. It would be the equivalent of someone saying, "If you don't behave, I'm going to have that lady run you over with her car." It's inappropriate and I would say something as well.

    Parents who threaten their children with outrageous violence or neglect get absolutely NO respect from me. All they are doing is teaching their child that they are a liar and have no better way to control the situation but come up with some fantastical fallacy. They don't even think about how it might actually effect their child's perception of life.

    I once saw a mother threaten her child with a monster who would come and kidnap him and kill him if he didn't follow her into a store.

    It also annoys the living crap out of me when parents say, "Fine, then I'm just going to leave you here," when their kids don't come when told... NO you are not going to leave your child.

    If someone were to use me as a threat to their children I would say something as well. It doesn't matter if it's because I have a gun or anything else. I won't let myself be used to frighten or threaten...especially not by some stranger.
    Thank you, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The gun was a secondary issue, in my opinion. The whole reason I started this thread was just to vent about poor parenting. My own mother said some outrageous things to me growing up. I often wondered if I would eventually see my brain on the kitchen floor, or worried that this time might be the time she really does beat the skin off my ass. But she never threatened me or made me fear that some stranger would come and hurt me if I got out of line. She was plenty capable of hurting me herself, LOL.

  8. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by protek View Post
    I might have considered reporting her to Child Protective Services. I certainly would have said something, if not to the mom, then to the kid. When I was a kid, I was threatened a number of times with weapons.... knives, guns. It's scary. I definitely would have made it clear that she was completely out of line to threaten to make someone else shoot her kid. To me, that's not escalating a situation.... it might be diffusing it, as far as the kid is concerned.
    Contacting Children and Youth services would have been pointless. They take a few days to respond to anything, when they get a call about suspected abuse. I just hope that woman thinks about what comes out of her mouth the next time she opens it.

  9. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbum View Post
    With the attitude in the firearms community that CC is the only way to go and for the firearm community to bow down to the heat of open carry haters then we will never gain any ground. I say that your attitude that open carry is bad hurts all firearm carriers.
    They made a neat little law for cops to use between the lines." terror to the public" just for carrying oc.
    You ever see how police officers stare at you when you oc?
    I just keep it covered now

  10. #114
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    To the OP's original question, I would not have engaged. Yes, it was bad parenting. However, any situation can escalate out of your control. I always de-escalate, doubly so when I'm carrying - here, just walk on by.

  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    I normally don't get mad when a stranger walks up to me and put their hands up and says, "Don't shoot!" I can tell they're joking. But this really got under my skin. What kind of person does that to their kids?
    If someone did that to me, I think I'ld tell them... "get on the ground and put your hands behind your back".

    You didn't over-react, in fact... I think you did great. I'm sure I wouldn't have been able to let that one slide.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  12. #116
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    My Mother probably felt like shooting me a time or two, but she never threatened to have someone else do it. Incredibly ignorant!

  13. #117
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    I agree the OC factor here is a non-issue. I'm no expert on parenting, since my son is only 20 months, but I don't see anything too wrong with what the lady said.

    There are such things as sarcasm, comedic exaggeration etc. Maybe we've been living in "Zero-tolerance" America when a comment obviously said in jest is taken as a "threat." Depending on the child they may be capable of understanding the difference between a joke and a real threat, knowing when and how to use such humor is at the discretion of the parent.

    When I was a kid I often told my friends "Oh, I can't eat all the christmas cookies from the cookie jar, my mom will Kill me!" Thank goodness there were no internet forums back then otherwise someone would surely have called children's services. :)


    ---
    If I were me I'd have tried to use the situation in a positive manner. I'd say to the lady and the child "oh no, I'd never hurt anyone. I'm just here to protect folks from bad people" or something along those lines. I think it would have conveyed the message without turning people off to OC. Remember we are all ambassadors of goodwill towards the general public.

    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I don't see this as an OC issue either. It would be the equivalent of someone saying, "If you don't behave, I'm going to have that lady run you over with her car." It's inappropriate and I would say something as well.

    Parents who threaten their children with outrageous violence or neglect get absolutely NO respect from me. All they are doing is teaching their child that they are a liar and have no better way to control the situation but come up with some fantastical fallacy. They don't even think about how it might actually effect their child's perception of life.

    I once saw a mother threaten her child with a monster who would come and kidnap him and kill him if he didn't follow her into a store.

    It also annoys the living crap out of me when parents say, "Fine, then I'm just going to leave you here," when their kids don't come when told... NO you are not going to leave your child.

    If someone were to use me as a threat to their children I would say something as well. It doesn't matter if it's because I have a gun or anything else. I won't let myself be used to frighten or threaten...especially not by some stranger.
    wmhawth and carracer like this.

  14. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post
    There are such things as sarcasm, comedic exaggeration etc. Maybe we've been living in "Zero-tolerance" America when a comment obviously said in jest is taken as a "threat."
    Jest means, "a thing said or done for amusement; a joke." An attempt to discipline a child with a threat is NOT a jest. It's not a joke. Discipline should NEVER be a joke.

    I JEST with my children when I have tickle fights with them and say, "Ohhh, I'm going to tickle you to pieces." Or when I let my son tackle me and say, "Oh, my goodness, you're too big and strong for mommy."

    THOSE are jests.. done in a light, fun tone and environment.

    Call me a little old fashioned when I comes to discipline but when my child hears, "You do xyz right now or you get abc," I want them to know that I am deadly serious and it's no joking matter. That way when I say, "Don't run into the road or you might be hit by a car," or "Don't play with fire or you could burn the house down," they know it's serious and not a "jest."

    Trying to discipline your child with empty threats is dangerous (in my finite opinion) because it sets your child up for not being fully prepared to believe you are serious about anything.

    You weren't serious about your threat to leave him at the store if he didn't come why should you be serious about him possibly getting hit by a car if he plays in the street? Nothing bad happened to him when you threatened to kill him for stealing cookies why should he believe you when you said something bad could happen to him if he gets into a car with strangers?

    I'm all for having fun and being playful with my kids but using empty threats, ESPECIALLY when it comes to discipline is very very irresponsible in my eyes.

    My kids need to know they can trust what I say and when I say something is dangerous it REALLY is dangerous and that when I say a certain consequence is coming for a particular behavior it IS coming.

    Yes, kids should know what is said as a joke and what is serious, but those distinctions should come at distinct times. Telling a joke to a child in the air of correction is sending major mixed signals to the child. And what kind of a mother would tell a joke to a kindergartner where the punch line is that he is shot by a stranger? How the heck is that considered funny?!? Obviously she wasn't serious but I certainly hope to God it wasn't a joke or jest.

    Yes, there are plenty of times I've said, "If I did that my father would have killed me," and, yes, most of the time it was an exaggeration but after watching some of the abuse handed out by my father I couldn't say for 100% certain it would have been an exaggeration in some cases.

    If there's anyone who NEEDS your Yea to be Yea and your Nay to be Nay, it's your kids.. especially when they are as young as the child represented in this story.

  15. #119
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    You did Ok, but as Mr. White said, "You can't fix stupid"

  16. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunther71 View Post
    They made a neat little law for cops to use between the lines." terror to the public" just for carrying oc.
    You ever see how police officers stare at you when you oc?
    I just keep it covered now
    FYI, that law in NC has nothing to do with lawful open carry regardless of what LE tells you. It's not illegal and it's supported by case law. I can point you to it if you wish. PM me so I don't hijack the thread anymore.

    About the parenting issue, I tell folks "Show me a messed up kid, and I'll show you messed up parents." It's accurate into the high 90%'s. They may not be intentionally bad, but they are not doing something right. If you threaten your children with punishment and don't follow through, you are teaching them to ignore and disrespect you. Don't complain when they do it later. If you threaten punishment and follow through, they learn to respect you. That and setting a good example go a long way towards raising good kids. But it's just too much work for some folks.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

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