"See That Man? He's Going To Shoot You!" - Page 9

"See That Man? He's Going To Shoot You!"

This is a discussion on "See That Man? He's Going To Shoot You!" within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi Lima, I don't think you are old fashioned at all, in fact I think more on the "new fashioned" side. :) Unfortunately we don't ...

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Thread: "See That Man? He's Going To Shoot You!"

  1. #121
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    Hi Lima, I don't think you are old fashioned at all, in fact I think more on the "new fashioned" side. :)

    Unfortunately we don't live in a black and white world where everyone always says exactly what they mean. Children hear all sorts of mixed messages all the time, that is just part of growing up to be a functioning adult. If they don't learn to make those distinctions as children, we eventually read about them in the news when they are the principal of a school expelling a child for pointing a finger at someone and saying "bang."

    The fact is, children hear mixed messages and fake threats from loving parents all the time. "Go to bed or Santa won't come down the chimney" is one that many kids are probably hearing right about now.


    Growing up I read a book called Struwwelpeter which was fully of cautionary tales of what happens to "bad" children should they not listen to their parents.

    The following is free of any copyright restriction and is freely distributed by project gutenberg: (Project Gutenberg eBook of Struwwelpeter, Merry Stories and Funny Pictures, by Heinrich Hoffman)

    The Story of Little Suck-a-Thumb

    "One day Mamma said "Conrad dear,
    I must go out and leave you here.
    But mind now, Conrad, what I say,
    Don't suck your thumb while I'm away.
    The great tall tailor always comes
    To little boys who suck their thumbs;
    And ere they dream what he's about,
    He takes his great sharp scissors out,
    And cuts their thumbs clean off—and then,
    You know, they never grow again."


    Mamma had scarcely turned her back,
    The thumb was in, Alack! Alack!





    The door flew open, in he ran,
    The great, long, red-legged scissor-man.
    Oh! children, see! the tailor's come
    And caught out little Suck-a-Thumb.
    Snip! Snap! Snip! the scissors go;
    And Conrad cries out "Oh! Oh! Oh!"
    Snip! Snap! Snip! They go so fast,
    That both his thumbs are off at last.




    Mamma comes home: there Conrad stands,
    And looks quite sad, and shows his hands;
    "Ah!" said Mamma, "I knew he'd come
    To naughty little Suck-a-Thumb."






    Somehow myself and over 100 million children in Germany, Austria and Switzerland were able to read such stories and distinguish that these were in fact stories and exaggerations. I knew nobody would sever my fingers if I sucked on them. I also knew God would not smite me into a pillar of salt if I took his name in vain. Children are smarter than we give them credit for. Learning to distinguish a bonafide threat from a fake one is IMO a critical part of growing up.

    The point is, we have no idea what the repertoire is like in the household and cannot make a value judgement about "bad parenting" from one 30 second encounter. The lady was rude, no doubt about it... but lets not blow things out of proportion, we have much bigger fish to fry re: parenting.





    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Jest means, "a thing said or done for amusement; a joke." An attempt to discipline a child with a threat is NOT a jest. It's not a joke. Discipline should NEVER be a joke.

    I JEST with my children when I have tickle fights with them and say, "Ohhh, I'm going to tickle you to pieces." Or when I let my son tackle me and say, "Oh, my goodness, you're too big and strong for mommy."

    THOSE are jests.. done in a light, fun tone and environment.

    Call me a little old fashioned when I comes to discipline but when my child hears, "You do xyz right now or you get abc," I want them to know that I am deadly serious and it's no joking matter. That way when I say, "Don't run into the road or you might be hit by a car," or "Don't play with fire or you could burn the house down," they know it's serious and not a "jest."

    Trying to discipline your child with empty threats is dangerous (in my finite opinion) because it sets your child up for not being fully prepared to believe you are serious about anything.

    You weren't serious about your threat to leave him at the store if he didn't come why should you be serious about him possibly getting hit by a car if he plays in the street? Nothing bad happened to him when you threatened to kill him for stealing cookies why should he believe you when you said something bad could happen to him if he gets into a car with strangers?

    I'm all for having fun and being playful with my kids but using empty threats, ESPECIALLY when it comes to discipline is very very irresponsible in my eyes.

    My kids need to know they can trust what I say and when I say something is dangerous it REALLY is dangerous and that when I say a certain consequence is coming for a particular behavior it IS coming.

    Yes, kids should know what is said as a joke and what is serious, but those distinctions should come at distinct times. Telling a joke to a child in the air of correction is sending major mixed signals to the child. And what kind of a mother would tell a joke to a kindergartner where the punch line is that he is shot by a stranger? How the heck is that considered funny?!? Obviously she wasn't serious but I certainly hope to God it wasn't a joke or jest.

    Yes, there are plenty of times I've said, "If I did that my father would have killed me," and, yes, most of the time it was an exaggeration but after watching some of the abuse handed out by my father I couldn't say for 100% certain it would have been an exaggeration in some cases.

    If there's anyone who NEEDS your Yea to be Yea and your Nay to be Nay, it's your kids.. especially when they are as young as the child represented in this story.


  2. #122
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Next time keep your coat on. If it was concealed it would not of happened. Just saying.....

    If its legal to open carry why should he have to keep his coat on? If people freak out or make stupid comments oh well thats too damn bad for them.

  3. #123
    Member Array protek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post

    Unfortunately we don't live in a black and white world where everyone always says exactly what they mean. Children hear all sorts of mixed messages all the time, that is just part of growing up to be a functioning adult. If they don't learn to make those distinctions as children, we eventually read about them in the news when they are the principal of a school expelling a child for pointing a finger at someone and saying "bang."

    The fact is, children hear mixed messages and fake threats from loving parents all the time. "Go to bed or Santa won't come down the chimney" is one that many kids are probably hearing right about now.
    Except that there is quite a difference between telling a kid that he will go to bed with no supper and telling your kid that you are going to get a stranger who is standing right there to take out his gun... a real gun.... and shoot him. Do you see the difference? Fake threat or not, it is a serious and dangerous threat. Kids have plenty of opportunities to distinguish real and fake without having threats from their parents like that.

    It's not okay to threaten your kid with someone else's firearm. My dad threatened to shoot me once. Do you think that I had difficulty figuring out whether he was serious or bluffing? For the record, I wasn't sure, and I was 16 at the time, not 5. It was TOTALLY different than some story I read or some vague threat to spank me when I was little.

    Little kids don't need to have to be able to distinguish the truth in a threat of great bodily harm. It's neither helpful nor healthy.
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  4. #124
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    I admit to not reading all the posts, but did read most of the first page, including the complete OP.

    But the thread has bothered me for some days now.

    Threatening a child with having a total stranger shoot them... well, to me, that's akin to getting a child to behave by telling them you'll take them to a doctor to get a shot... get a policeman to arrest them for misbehaving.

    While I don't agree with intentional OC (or exposing your weapon 'cause you got to hot), for the most part; what this "mother" did was wrong. Absolutely, completely wrong.

    I applaud the OP for giving the "mom" her comeuppance, and might have taken it a bit further, talking to the child in question. Explaining to them why I carry a gun, and that it is strictly to protect myself and my family from people that try to hurt us. (Verbiage dependent on the age of the child).

    Epic Fail on the part of the "mother" in this case.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #125
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    In my opinion you didn't over react at all. Not one bit, in fact I commend you on reacting the way you did. You darn sure reacted better than I would have. Well done.
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  6. #126
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooter380 View Post
    You did Ok, but as Mr. White said, "You can't fix stupid"
    You can...unfortunately it's usually illegal in lawful societies. Hopefully the stupid fix themselves(ie: removing themselves from the gene pool).
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  7. #127
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protek View Post
    Fake threat or not, it is a serious and dangerous threat.
    I do see a difference. By definition a fake threat in this type of situation is not dangerous.*

    Stupid? Yes.
    Inappropriate? Yes.

    A real threat? Clearly not. Perhaps I just grew up in too sheltered a life where I never had to fear my parents. I really see the "threat" aspect of this situation as being much ado about nothing.

    Inappropriately involving a stranger in your jokes is a different issue altogether.

    *Please don't equate a mother scolding her child in a colorful manner with yelling fire in a crowded theater.

  8. #128
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    If its legal to open carry why should he have to keep his coat on? If people freak out or make stupid comments oh well thats too damn bad for them.
    Just because its legal doesnt make it wise...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  9. #129
    Member Array carracer's Avatar
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    Just so as not to offend, the wise thing to do would be leave your sidearms at home. That way there should be no question about whether someone might get scared about this sort of thing. If you don't have it, then it won't get stolen either! Also there may be legislation to repeal the concealed carry laws in the new year cuz having a gun on you is just not right.
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  10. #130
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    Just so as not to offend, the wise thing to do would be leave your sidearms at home. That way there should be no question about whether someone might get scared about this sort of thing. If you don't have it, then it won't get stolen either! Also there may be legislation to repeal the concealed carry laws in the new year cuz having a gun on you is just not right.
    No offense taken. I would have been easier to conceal the weapon then go thru the crap the OP went thru. You can take it to what ever extreme you like, but if his gun was covered this would be a non- event...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  11. #131
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    Just so as not to offend, the wise thing to do would be leave your sidearms at home. That way there should be no question about whether someone might get scared about this sort of thing. If you don't have it, then it won't get stolen either! Also there may be legislation to repeal the concealed carry laws in the new year cuz having a gun on you is just not right.
    Parents like this are more of a danger to society than all the gun owners put together. Maybe we should look into legislation on parenting?

    Michael
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  12. #132
    Member Array carracer's Avatar
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    Thank you mlr1m. As others have stated previously, the issue is not open carry, but, the parenting. It was his choice to oc. It's fine. I do it alot.

    No one HERE cares if others would have avoided by concealing. You others can go hide your handgun and tell someone else how much better it is to avoid whatever you are afraid of.
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  13. #133
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Parents like this are more of a danger to society than all the gun owners put together. Maybe we should look into legislation on parenting?

    Michael
    Really?

    Am I reading a different thread? The woman had a 4 year old throw a temper tantrum. Can any parent who has raised kids claim they've never had a child misbehave in public at some point? The woman made a stupid thoughtless comment, but I don't think that means that "parents like this are a danger to society"

    Get a grip folks.

    4 year old threw tantrum. Exasperated mom made a stupid comment. OP was offended. End of story.
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  14. #134
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post
    Really?

    Am I reading a different thread? The woman had a 4 year old throw a temper tantrum. Can any parent who has raised kids claim they've never had a child misbehave in public at some point? The woman made a stupid thoughtless comment, but I don't think that means that "parents like this are a danger to society"

    Get a grip folks.

    4 year old threw tantrum. Exasperated mom made a stupid comment. OP was offended. End of story
    .
    Amen to that. Making more than that of it is much ado about not much. I wouldn't have given the matter more than a fleeting moment of attention and I certainly wouldn't have bothered myself with indignation, either real or feigned, nor would I have wasted my time on a public critique of the parent's actions. Had the lady screamed "man with a gun" rather than make a stupid comment to her child I might then have had some concern about how she was influencing the kid.
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  15. #135
    Distinguished Member Array pirate's Avatar
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    Too bad you don't need a permit to breed!
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    When I leave the home port:
    S&W 642 Airweight, Ruger SP 101, Colt Detective Spec., CZ RAMI, Kahr PM9, Kahr CW40, S&W Model 10-7, Glock 30, 19, and 26, Browning Hi Power, CZ82, Colt Commander, Dan Wesson PM7, Ruger LCP

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