This is a discussion on Interesting LEO Encounter While Open Carrying within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by suntzu Look, if a LEO feels his job is crappy he can quit. This was not a MAWG response. Ya know, if ...
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
I don't think you caved, to me it looks like you de-escalated appropriately. I think you followed the rule that says you will never win an argument with a cop by the side of the road, nor is it the place to try. I also think that you do need to follow up on this issue and raise it through appropirate channels, be it through the chief of police or your city counsel or other and that you really should proceed with this until you get resolution feedback. If you don't I would be concerned about the next time you OC and encounter this same guy. I'm sure you can imagine how that enounter would go.
As far as the MWAG calls go, well, thats a departmental training issue and one that they need to address. This has come up a few times in the past and I think the best response was the one where the 911 operater told the caller that it wasn't illegal to carry a gun. The issue isn't whether it is more advantageous to OC or CC. The issue is allowing political correctness and keeping the sheep quiet to dictacte ones behavior, when one is not in the wrong.
Yes, I suppose it does depend on which state you're in. I'm not aware of any state that allows OC but doesn't allow CC but there probably are some states that allow CC but not OC???
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Leo's inconsiderate, impolite and offense language could have pushed you in the direction of refusing to acquiesce to his request. It is unfortunate that officers default to intimidation. Even so, Leo had a valid concern for the other people in the park. I think you did the right thing, though Leo did his utmost to dissuade you from complying.
Pennsylvania Open Carry Gun Laws, Information, Fliers and Forum - paopencarry.orgI think that there are several states that allow OC without a permit.In Pennsylvania, persons 18 years of age and older whom are not prohibited by law from owning firearms may openly carry a handgun in plain sight with no license except in vehicles*, cities of the first class** (Philadelphia) and where prohibited specifically by statute
This thread personaly cracks me up. I have been accused of being anti 2a because I said it is up to a neighborhood watch group which is a private group to not allow its folks to carry while part of the watch. No where did I say the government should get involved or make a law. And if a group did this an individuals rights are not violated at all. A person could carry at the same time on the same public areas as the neighborhood watch. They would not officially be part of the group so if something happened the HOA would or might not be liable.
Now, folks seem to think it is totally Okee Dokee to think it is OK for LE to come up to a citizen, exercising his right to OC, no MWAG call, and confront him with hypothetical how it might scare folks. And a lot of folks seem to think it is OK for the officer to basically brow beat and or try to convince the OC'er to not OC while he is in an official capacity!
And BTW: don't try to say it is for his own good so he won't be hassled. He already is being hassled.
My point is that many of us respect - and are indeed grateful - for the choice of others to go into law enforcement - but that fact should not cloud our judgment when it comes to assessing their conduct objectively.
So you ride a very fast crotch rocket motorcycle flashy color and all.
LEO does not like that image and the fact it will go 3 times the speed limit. So he tells you to leave it at home and do not come back to his town because he and others do not like it.
Office just trying to be helpful tells a Black man he is really out of place on this side of town and must leave because he worries others.
LEO have no right whats so ever at anything to pull this. We all know they do and they get away with it.
The LEO needs to be hauled into court chances are good that would never happen. He should be fired but that is not going to happen either.
Today the open carry guy when they have him beat down your next.
Any time a sworn officer starts swearing at or in the presence of law abiding citizens we have a problem
When I was a young pup and occasionally getting into trouble, I would always give that wide eyed, mouth hanging open expression pleading that I didn't know that! As I was being led out back to the woodshed I was always reminded that "ignorance of the law is not an excuse boy." Seems like that should still apply today. If people took time to know the law there should not be any MWAG calls when people see OCers. But, alas, our society teaches us to be afraid of big bad guns and the mean people who carry them.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. Because it's in English, thank a vet
Imagine if we extend this reasoning to the First Amendment! Gosh I would like to put a pro Catholic, pro Darwin, pro whatever bumper sticker on my car but the Mormon, Baptist, whatever dominated police department may not approve?
Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine
I would probably tell the cop something along the lines of "the last time I checked, feelings don't trump the law," but when the area is approaching it's 100th bomb threat in two months, one should use a bit of discretion.
I've never had any problems in PA when I open carried, even when I open carried before I was 21.
Last edited by tubadude; April 15th, 2012 at 05:47 PM.
C'mon. Just because you acquiesce once doesn't mean you are flushing the Constitution down the drain.