Interesting LEO Encounter While Open Carrying - Page 5

Interesting LEO Encounter While Open Carrying

This is a discussion on Interesting LEO Encounter While Open Carrying within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by acepilot Yes, I suppose it does depend on which state you're in. I'm not aware of any state that allows OC but ...

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Thread: Interesting LEO Encounter While Open Carrying

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acepilot View Post
    Yes, I suppose it does depend on which state you're in. I'm not aware of any state that allows OC but doesn't allow CC but there probably are some states that allow CC but not OC???
    Open Carry Firearm States List and Descriptions - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    C'mon. Just because you acquiesce once doesn't mean you are flushing the Constitution down the drain.
    I do not necessarily advocate being "hard line" with my rights however when you deal with officers of the law one really needs to be very guarded on what you say to them. Less (if not the 5th) is best.

    While the below video is a bit lengthy (48 minutes) it is well worth watching especially for those of us on this forum. It is of a law school professor and former criminal defense attorney.
    Dont Talk to Police - YouTube
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  3. #63
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I would not mind the encounter so much. However I do mind being cussed at, ridiculed, or being talked down to. This officer need to be reported. Simple as that. What he did was unprofessional.
    I agree, the OP did take appropiate action AT THAT MOMENT, to make sure the situation was resolved peacefully. However, I also think that this attitude and approach taken by the LEO needs to be professionally addressed. Police Chiefs are politicians, and they like to to have good customer service experiences with law abiding citiziens. Many (not all) chiefs will address this sort of attitude amongst their roles.
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMan View Post
    I agree, the OP did take appropiate action AT THAT MOMENT, to make sure the situation was resolved peacefully. However, I also think that this attitude and approach taken by the LEO needs to be professionally addressed. Police Chiefs are politicians, and they like to to have good customer service experiences with law abiding citiziens. Many (not all) chiefs will address this sort of attitude amongst their roles.
    Excuse me again here. Am like from Mars or something and just not getting it. In Bold: Are serious! A citizen exercising his rights, minding his own business is confronted by LEO and is 'convinced' it is best for everybody for him to give up his right for the sake of convenience. How on earth woould it escalate??? By saying no, good day sir, I respect your opinion, and am I being detained?????So the individual citizen is now responsible for making sure a confrontation initiated by the LEO with NO MWAG called in is resolved peacefully!!!! Are you reallyy serious about that or I guess I am from MARS. Good grief

  5. #65
    Senior Member Array kb2wji's Avatar
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    ^ For crying out loud, no. But guess what....when somebody calls us concerned, we have the obligation to investigate. If that means approaching you to verify legit permit status, so be it. If this is not convienient, dont OC. Yes, you have the legal right to OC, but that doesnt mean its the best option. I think alot of OC'ers wont admit to liking the attention, but they secretely do, IMO. Flame on, but thats the impression im getting with these threads. How many times does a "LEO Encounter" thread need to be started by an OC'er that was approached by PD? What do you expect? Some members of the public get freaked out. It's annoying to LEO's sometimes, but we still have to have a chat.

    I have every right to tell a waiter he's a moron, but if I found spit in my food I would be a fool to be surprised.
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  6. #66
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kb2wji View Post
    ^ For crying out loud, no. But guess what....when somebody calls us concerned, we have the obligation to investigate. If that means approaching you to verify legit permit status, so be it. If this is not convienient, dont OC. Yes, you have the legal right to OC, but that doesnt mean its the best option. I think alot of OC'ers wont admit to liking the attention, but they secretely do, IMO. Flame on, but thats the impression im getting with these threads. How many times does a "LEO Encounter" thread need to be started by an OC'er that was approached by PD? What do you expect? Some members of the public get freaked out. It's annoying to LEO's sometimes, but we still have to have a chat.

    I have every right to tell a waiter he's a moron, but if I found spit in my food I would be a fool to be surprised.
    I appreciate your input. However, in PA, no permit is needed to OC. You absolutely have a right to chat, but we have a right to decline to chat.

    Some OCers may like attention, but I would much rather not be bothered while I am carrying.

    Also, there was no MWAG call. He was driving through the park and stopped beside me.

    I don't expect to be called "f-ing stupid" by a deputy for carrying a gun. If he doesn't like it, that is his business, but he doesn't have to swear at me.

    I started this thread in the OC forum to get feedback on the overall interaction. I welcome LEO feedback and carrier feedback, but the purpose of this thread was to educate others, and to help get feedback on my own reaction.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  7. #67
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kb2wji View Post
    ^ For crying out loud, no. But guess what....when somebody calls us concerned, we have the obligation to investigate. If that means approaching you to verify legit permit status, so be it. If this is not convienient, dont OC. Yes, you have the legal right to OC, but that doesnt mean its the best option. I think alot of OC'ers wont admit to liking the attention, but they secretely do, IMO. Flame on, but thats the impression im getting with these threads. How many times does a "LEO Encounter" thread need to be started by an OC'er that was approached by PD? What do you expect? Some members of the public get freaked out. It's annoying to LEO's sometimes, but we still have to have a chat.

    I have every right to tell a waiter he's a moron, but if I found spit in my food I would be a fool to be surprised.
    In this situation which we are talking about there WAS NO MWAG call. And if you have read what I have posted before you would know that I said I would be polite to an officer responding to such a call. Ya know, some folks used to get freaked out by folks of different color and faiths and sexual orientation. What do you want them to do, sit in the back of the bus or go back into the closet? What part of rights do not some folks understand. Sorry if it makes work for LEO's. Last time I looked my property tax money goes to their salaries. Sorry, get a new profession if it is too much work. This is not police bashing. All I saying is if there is no MWAG call why on earth is an officer approaching a law abiding citizen. And yes, I would not comply with any LEO asking me to cover my OC. I would politley ask him if I was being detained. And he better have a darn good reason if he says yes. Then he just escalated a situation. Sorry.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Uh, excuse me. Are you truly trying to equate someone minding his own business and a LEO approaching him for no other reason than the man carrying a weapon legally to a traffic stop where an officer has pulled you over for a reason or cause. I guess next it will be OK for LE or other groups to appraoch you at the voting booth and say it will be easier on everybody if you just tell me who you are going to vote for.
    The point I am trying to make is that it seems a little inconsistent that some people get very upset about others not fully relying on their 2A rights, but shrug off other waivers of other rights. Yes, there is a difference when you are pulled over for cause from when you are engaging an office voluntarily. But the context of the encounter is not relevant to the reliance on constitutional rights. So I ask all the posters that are riding the OC for "caving" if they *always* rely on the 5th when stopped by a cop. If they do, then okay, they have a consistent approach. Good for them, and I can't fault them. On the other hand, if they sometimes say "Oops, I didn't realize it was a 40 MPH Zone...." (and waive the 5th to the extent of the admission) or simply do not affirmatively announce they will not answer any LEO questions, then they are being inconsistent.

    I get it. It's frustrating that so many people - and LEO's - take a dim view of OC. I understand. But I think some tolerance in they way people respond to LEO's is also due.

  9. #69
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    I get it. It's frustrating that so many people - and LEO's - take a dim view of OC. I understand. But I think some tolerance in they way people respond to LEO's is also due.
    That was what I was trying to do, show some courtesy to LEOs while representing armed citizens. However, this incident had made me a little bit more apprehensive to interact with an LEO while OCing. It makes me strongly consider replying, "am I being detained?" when approached from now on.
    MisterAvis and suntzu like this.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  10. #70
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Obtaining a drivers license is a privilege. The Constitution gave us certain rights and not privileges. The officer had no right suggesting the OP to conceal. None. While this may not be the best example here goes:
    A law enforcement officer suggests you might want to attend the church down the street because the way you are dressed might cause problems at the church you wanted to enter.

    "The minute you settle for less than you deserve, you get even less than you settled for."
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    Last edited by Crowman; April 16th, 2012 at 02:44 AM.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  11. #71
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    I appreciate your input. However, in PA, no permit is needed to OC. You absolutely have a right to chat, but we have a right to decline to chat.

    Some OCers may like attention, but I would much rather not be bothered while I am carrying.

    Also, there was no MWAG call. He was driving through the park and stopped beside me.

    I don't expect to be called "f-ing stupid" by a deputy for carrying a gun. If he doesn't like it, that is his business, but he doesn't have to swear at me.

    I started this thread in the OC forum to get feedback on the overall interaction. I welcome LEO feedback and carrier feedback, but the purpose of this thread was to educate others, and to help get feedback on my own reaction.
    According to your original post he said what you were doing was stupid, he didn't say YOU were stupid. In my mind there's a difference.
    Here's the bottom line on OC:
    In a rural setting you are probably good to go because people are accustomed to being around guns being carried by non-LEOs.
    In an urban setting you are going to get stopped and questioned. You will stick out like a sore thumb and alarm some people to the point where they will call it in.
    If you enjoy all of the attention and the "look at me" wow factor than be prepared to experience the down side of that as well.

    On another note....You won't get arrested for belching or farting in a movie theater either but common courtesy dictates that you don't do it as it will likely annoy the folks around you.
    I would much rather be the guy that nobody notices.......

    Disclaimer......do whatever you want and don't take anything I've said personal, I'm just some clown on a keyboard killing time!
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  12. #72
    Ex Member Array Snatale42's Avatar
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    I can be intimidating the first LEO encounter, but next time you'll be ready to stand your ground with it. To the people who said "That's why I don't OC" Congrats, because that attitude IS THE REASON this happens in the first place. People are against guns because they are needlessly afraid of them, OC desensitizes them to guns CC does not. I do both regularly but OC IS needed. If a state takes OC, they will eventually go after CC, how hard is that to understand. In my home state of MA OC is 100% legal....but do it and see what happens! Because unrestricted permits are may issue, people are afraid to OC out of fear there permits will be busted down to Target and Hunting only. All of this happened simply because people just stopped OCing, so NOW something must be wrong is somebody does it.

  13. #73
    Member Array 2wheelGnnr's Avatar
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    Hears what I dont get...nor have seen addressed or asked by others. but again its coming from a Pro-gunner vs a non gunner aproach. But...do you REALLY think that a dude carrying a gun in a holster on his side is really reason to call LE with MWG! I mean hes walking along with it on his side...Not RUNNING around with it in his hand like a lunatic.... I mean understand LE hates the MWG call and finds a person excercising his right. But too bad OP had to "Comprimise" his values for the "sake of the public perception". Maybe 911 should educate people too..like....what is he/her doing? in a holster.....its a legal right to do this sir/maam....

    Its too bad in some ways...I understand both sides but he jerk side of me says why should he comprimise...but.....cant say what Id do in the same sitation...so...we try to respect leo but..they are wrong at times too..only human.

    my nickels worth.
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  14. #74
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    According to your original post he said what you were doing was stupid, he didn't say YOU were stupid. In my mind there's a difference.
    Here's the bottom line on OC:
    In a rural setting you are probably good to go because people are accustomed to being around guns being carried by non-LEOs.
    In an urban setting you are going to get stopped and questioned. You will stick out like a sore thumb and alarm some people to the point where they will call it in.
    If you enjoy all of the attention and the "look at me" wow factor than be prepared to experience the down side of that as well.

    On another note....You won't get arrested for belching or farting in a movie theater either but common courtesy dictates that you don't do it as it will likely annoy the folks around you.
    I would much rather be the guy that nobody notices.......

    Disclaimer......do whatever you want and don't take anything I've said personal, I'm just some clown on a keyboard killing time!
    Fair enough. In my mind calling something that I am doing stupid is akin to calling me stupid, but your delineation is fair.

    I've already stated once that I don't want attention, nor do I want to be bothered. I've found that most people don't even notice.

    You don't have a right to burp or fart; you do have a right to carry a gun. Also, how is minding my own business while being armed annoying?
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  15. #75
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    That was what I was trying to do, show some courtesy to LEOs while representing armed citizens. However, this incident had made me a little bit more apprehensive to interact with an LEO while OCing. It makes me strongly consider replying, "am I being detained?" when approached from now on.
    You weren't showing him any courtesy; stop saying that, bedcause it's not true. He told you to conceal your gun, and you did. That's not being polite, that giving in to an unlawful demand. What if you were gay, and holding hands with your partner, and a police officer came along and told you to stop holding hands, because it might offend people? Or what if you were Jewish, and wearing a yarmulke, and he told you to take it off and put it in your pocket? You let a bully in uniform walk all over your rights. DOn't try and paint it as something else.
    GhostRed7 and Crowman like this.

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