Interesting LEO Encounter While Open Carrying

This is a discussion on Interesting LEO Encounter While Open Carrying within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Dumbledork You weren't showing him any courtesy; stop saying that, bedcause it's not true. He told you to conceal your gun, and ...

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Thread: Interesting LEO Encounter While Open Carrying

  1. #76
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    You weren't showing him any courtesy; stop saying that, bedcause it's not true. He told you to conceal your gun, and you did. That's not being polite, that giving in to an unlawful demand. What if you were gay, and holding hands with your partner, and a police officer came along and told you to stop holding hands, because it might offend people? Or what if you were Jewish, and wearing a yarmulke, and he told you to take it off and put it in your pocket? You let a bully in uniform walk all over your rights. DOn't try and paint it as something else.
    I didn't mean I was showing the officer courtesy by covering up. I meant by my general attitude and engaging him in a friendly way I was showing courtesy.

    I admitted already TWICE so far in this thread that I caved as far as covering my weapon, so I'm not sure why you think I am trying to paint it as something else.

    How is it helpful to the 2A cause if I'm a jerk to every LEO I meet while OCing?

    BTW, how did you handle your first LEO while OCing?
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

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  3. #77
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    I didn't mean I was showing the officer courtesy by covering up. I meant by my general attitude and engaging him in a friendly way I was showing courtesy.

    I admitted already TWICE so far in this thread that I caved as far as covering my weapon, so I'm not sure why you think I am trying to paint it as something else.

    How is it helpful to the 2A cause if I'm a jerk to every LEO I meet while OCing?

    BTW, how did you handle your first LEO while OCing?
    Asserting your rights isn't being a jerk. Again, stop painting it as something else. You can assert your rights without being a jerk. As far as my first encounter with a LEO for open carrying, a group of them demanded my ID. I refused. They then demanded I covered it up. I told them to go to hell. They were acting like jerks, just as the LEO you encountered, so I responded with jerkiness.

  4. #78
    Member Array bolocanolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    They then demanded I covered it up. I told them to go to hell. They were acting like jerks, just as the LEO you encountered, so I responded with jerkiness.
    Now there's an "HOMBRE WITH WELL PLACED COJONES"

  5. #79
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    Asserting your rights isn't being a jerk. Again, stop painting it as something else. You can assert your rights without being a jerk. As far as my first encounter with a LEO for open carrying, a group of them demanded my ID. I refused. They then demanded I covered it up. I told them to go to hell. They were acting like jerks, just as the LEO you encountered, so I responded with jerkiness.

    This is an excerpt from one of my comments on page 1:

    "Also, I did not want to be one of those open carry jerks on youtube. I wanted to represent carry (any kind) well, and show that citizens that carry firearms can be respectful while asserting their rights (I failed to do the latter, however)."

    Stop twisting what I am saying into what you want it to be, I have said, as you can see, that I did not do well asserting my rights. My point is people can assert their rights without being jerks.

    Kudos to you on your LEO interaction. Mine didn't go so well, as I have already stated. You chose to be jerky, I tried to be classy; you defended your rights, I failed to do so. What exactly is your point?
    Last edited by Badey; April 16th, 2012 at 05:43 PM. Reason: bolding
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

  6. #80
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dumbledork
    They then demanded I covered it up. I told them to go to hell. They were acting like jerks, just as the LEO you encountered, so I responded with jerkiness.
    Do that with the wrong Cop and you might find out the sad truth that on the side of the road the Cop is the law. Sometimes it wiser to just bite your tongue and wait for a safer time to complain.

    Had the OP gone to the officers superiors and made a formal complaint I would have given him an +A on his encounter.

    Michael

  7. #81
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Do that with the wrong Cop and you might find out the sad truth that on the side of the road the Cop is the law. Sometimes it wiser to just bite your tongue and wait for a safer time to complain.

    Had the OP gone to the officers superiors and made a formal complaint I would have given him an +A on his encounter.

    Michael
    How come these threads always ends up with statements to the effect it is better to bow to authority than stick up for our rights. I know this has been used a lot but I am sure Rosa Parks would be proud of how we 'stand' up for our rights regardless of the consequences. For those of you sarcasm impaired; that was sarcasm. I would be polite but would not bow to any LEO's wishes.

  8. #82
    Senior Member Array Fausty's Avatar
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    so, i am not going to read this whole thread, but basically the cop didn't want to deal with all the people saying "oh, that guy has a gun!!!" in other words he was being lazy. instead of taking the time to explain the law to these people he just told you to cover up so he wouldn't have to do his job.

    i would have covered up. i would have been ccing in the first place, but the hypothetical answer is i would have caved. best case scenario, you lose a half hour of your time arguing, worst case you get the cuffs, and a disorderly conduct fine. or at least i would have. eventually if i argued with a cop i would cock off enough to get a d.c. fine.
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  9. #83
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    Wow. The righteous indignation expressed by some in this thread is approaching that of a "would you intervene" thread. Whoda thunk?

  10. #84
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    I
    Lastly, this was my first LEO encounter while open carrying, and I was a touch nervous, hence why I caved.
    Don't worry about this. I live in Florida and right now, OC anywhere near Sanford is likely to bring a VERY negative response. What were you trying to accomplish by OC.? I use CC to gain a tactical advantage, and protect myself and my wife if necessary. I'm not, and I'm sure you are not, out to give LEOs a hard time, make them take the time away from their other work to answer a MWAG call that might leave me compromised or worse. There may be a time and a place and a reason to try to make an OC point -- this was probably not one of those...
    'Guerir quelquefois, soulager souvent, consoler toujours.'

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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    How come these threads always ends up with statements to the effect it is better to bow to authority than stick up for our rights. I know this has been used a lot but I am sure Rosa Parks would be proud of how we 'stand' up for our rights regardless of the consequences. For those of you sarcasm impaired; that was sarcasm. I would be polite but would not bow to any LEO's wishes.
    Don't mistake choosing to fight your battle in a more intelligent way with bowing to authority. It's just not smart to buck heads with a belligerent cop on his turf. If you are indeed following the law then fight your battle with some strategy. A tactical retreat from that poorly trained cop followed by a move up the food chain with your complaint would seem a safer and more effective way to win your point and perhaps even get your cop some education.
    mlr1m and Pistology like this.

  12. #86
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Don't mistake choosing to fight your battle in a more intelligent way with bowing to authority. It's just not smart to buck heads with a belligerent cop on his turf. If you are indeed following the law then fight your battle with some strategy. A tactical retreat from that poorly trained cop followed by a move up the food chain with your complaint would seem a safer and more effective way to win your point and perhaps even get your cop some education.
    Well, all I can say is EVERY time I can recall in this forum it seems like it is NEVER the right to 'buck heads' with a LEO when they question you about OC'ing. That is the pathetic part. So, you tell me when it is the proper time to 'buck heads' with a LEO? Just curious if you can tell us.

  13. #87
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    How come these threads always ends up with statements to the effect it is better to bow to authority than stick up for our rights. I know this has been used a lot but I am sure Rosa Parks would be proud of how we 'stand' up for our rights regardless of the consequences. For those of you sarcasm impaired; that was sarcasm. I would be polite but would not bow to any LEO's wishes.
    Understand your point. I have on occasion talked back to officers when I felt I was in the right. It sometimes works and on other times even when right, well have you ever heard the statement that I can find something to charge you with?
    It does happen.

    Michael

  14. #88
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    What were you trying to accomplish by OC.? There may be a time and a place and a reason to try to make an OC point -- this was probably not one of those...
    That question should not even be asked. It is simply a matter of someone doing something that is legal and a right. Your question is the same as asking someone what were they trying to accomplish by going to church.

    As far as law enforcement goes some officers have the "I am God" complex. They feel that no matter what they say you will obey. People in other countries that come here will tell you of how they feared the police in there countries. Is this what we want in America. They are there to enforce the law and not to tell us how to act in accord with their personal beliefs or just because they do not want to deal with a possible situation.

    I find it frustrating that 2nd amendment advocates have been on defense for at least the last 20 years. Personally I believe that we need to go on offense. It is time the American public again becomes desensitized to seeing someone carrying a firearm. One way is open carry. There needs to be an open carry once a month movement in this country. We have compromised and "caved" for far too long. The only ones that have really benefited from us being on defense is the criminal element.

    The anti 2nd amendment people, groups, etc., need to deal with the real problem. The need to advocate for CRIME control not GUN control.
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  15. #89
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DoctorBob
    What were you trying to accomplish by OC.? There may be a time and a place and a reason to try to make an OC point -- this was probably not one of those...
    Why is it that so many people ask this question? Do you really believe that a person must have a suitable reason for doing something that is perfectly legal? Do you think that everyone must justify their actions to the rest of society or the State? That everyone must conform to what some feel is proper?

    Michael

  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Well, all I can say is EVERY time I can recall in this forum it seems like it is NEVER the right to 'buck heads' with a LEO when they question you about OC'ing. That is the pathetic part. So, you tell me when it is the proper time to 'buck heads' with a LEO? Just curious if you can tell us.
    I think the proper time to "buck heads" with a LEO, has been stated in this thread....a couple times. Suck it up in the moment, and give yourself the "tactical advantage", by documenting the situation after the event and writing a formal complaint. Enough instances against an officer will warrant action from the department.

    I personally don't have a problem with authority from officers. I have dealt with some fairly bold/rude ones, but much less than officers who are just doing their job and are courteous....even helpful. However, on the "side of the road", the officer is going to do everything in his power to maintain control, it's their job & stakes are high. They have no idea who you are and your intentions and will likely be prepared for conflict....and some less experienced, might actually provoke it. They have the benefit of the doubt come court time if something were to go south in the event. In this situation, I see it appropriate to comply in the moment and handle it when you can put pen to paper or speak with a superior. Though, I personally would not have been offended by his recommendation in this scenario, just maybe his tactics.

    I am not a LEO. Other than this officer's bold use of language and described demeanor (if OP documented it accurately), I agree with the officer's point. Many soccer moms would flip if they saw the man with a gun......why do you think there are so many instances of MWAG who is OC? Remember, that OC'ers are in the minority of gun owner's, let alone the general population....thus, the general population is unaware of the legality of it. Heck, there are even avid 2A supporters on this forum who don't even know about all their own state's laws.

    Many people on DC will talk about being "in-tune" with their surroundings and won't go here or there at this time of night, because they want to avoid conflicts with criminals. But, they seem to lose such judgement when they want to assert their rights or measure their....um.....authority.

    Like I said earlier, there is a time and a place for things. You have a right to free speech and in most places you can cuss all you want. I'm pretty sure that even though it's a right, it's not appropriate in many situations or places, by sheer common sense. I support the right to carry, but I am also understanding of human nature for people to react a certain way because they do not see something often enough to be desensitized by it. An active public park is a place where you are just asking for it. Just my $0.02
    Last edited by discoboxer; April 17th, 2012 at 03:56 AM.
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