Kid arrested openly carrying rifle in Birmingham, MI - no laws broken that I can tell

This is a discussion on Kid arrested openly carrying rifle in Birmingham, MI - no laws broken that I can tell within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Guys look at it this way. If you were a store clerk and this guy comes in to buy cigarettes, and you have to be ...

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Thread: Kid arrested openly carrying rifle in Birmingham, MI - no laws broken that I can tell

  1. #76
    VIP Member
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    Guys look at it this way.

    If you were a store clerk and this guy comes in to buy cigarettes, and you have to be over 18, would you have carded him? The fact remains he looks 15, he was carrying a rifle, the officers approached to verify his age, he refused and was arrested. What is the argument over?

    This is beyond the OC debate this revolves around common sense. He wanted attention and he got it.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by vette329 View Post
    Obviously, you do not know the entire story. Once he cooperated he was arrested!!!!
    Where did it say he cooperated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Guys look at it this way.

    If you were a store clerk and this guy comes in to buy cigarettes, and you have to be over 18, would you have carded him? The fact remains he looks 15, he was carrying a rifle, the officers approached to verify his age, he refused and was arrested. What is the argument over?

    This is beyond the OC debate this revolves around common sense. He wanted attention and he got it.
    The stock clerk is not a state entity and cannot arrest the customer if the customer fails to comply.

  5. #79
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Guys look at it this way.

    If you were a store clerk and this guy comes in to buy cigarettes, and you have to be over 18, would you have carded him? The fact remains he looks 15, he was carrying a rifle, the officers approached to verify his age, he refused and was arrested. What is the argument over?

    This is beyond the OC debate this revolves around common sense. He wanted attention and he got it.
    The argument is over whether or not the police had a legal right to arrest him for not producing ID.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

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    Oh dear god you are right the clerk at the 7-11 cannot arrest him but he/she can use common sense as to whether or not the guy looks old enough and that is the point I was trying to make and that is what the officers did. Can you honestly say this guy looks 18 years old?

    Badey when this post started the argument was whether they had RS to approach, and folks argued that they had no reason to bother him. Now that that has been proven they did everything is now whether or not he should have been arrested. So the officers at the scene should ask can I see your ID to verify you are over 18 and the guy says no. Ok thank you we will simply ignore the fact that what you are doing is illegal if you are not over 18, but hey whatever happens, happens.

    This is turning into another one of those threads like the guy carrying the AR at the salad bar and wonders why the manager asked him to leave. You cannot leave common sense at the door and expect eveyone to play along.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #81
    Member Array cmike's Avatar
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    I agree. There is common sense.

    If a person looks pretty young, seems underage, and is carrying a firearm, I think a police officer is going to do what he can to make sure that he is legally old enough to carry a firearm.

  8. #82
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Sorry Gents, we cannot use the term common sense because the antis use it, and the OCers equate that to us. We must use Poor Judgement or Good Judgement. We do not want to be equated with the antis, do we?
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmike View Post
    In Michigan you have to be 18 or over to open carry.

    He looked underage. This created reasonable suspicion that he was breaking the law

    The cops asked for ID. He refused. That's disorderly conduct.

    He got what he deserved. He was looking for trouble and he got it.

    The OC activists seem to think he is a martyr.
    Don't talk to police = criminal charge. Okey doke. So much for those constitutional rights.

    As for the second point, how do you know "he was looking for trouble." Facts not in evidence....


    PS: I'm not saying he wasn't lawfully detained. I'm saying the argument that he committed a criminal act for refusing to talk to the police is one that rests on a sandy foundation.

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    Another take on the story. According to a witness, he was going to produce his ID when he was arrested. Granted, the witness is sympathetic...

    Witness: Troy Teen Arrested for Carrying Rifle 'Was in His Legal Right' - Troy, MI Patch

    Who knows what really happened. Certainly none of us.

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    This is turning into another one of those threads like the guy carrying the AR at the salad bar and wonders why the manager asked him to leave. You cannot leave common sense at the door and expect eveyone to play along.
    This is about citizens rights, IMO, not "common sense." As someone who OCs, do I think carrying a long gun is the best idea, no, but is it his right, yes, and that is all that matters, IMO.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Sorry Gents, we cannot use the term common sense because the antis use it, and the OCers equate that to us. We must use Poor Judgement or Good Judgement. We do not want to be equated with the antis, do we?
    I've never equated anyone who carries to an anti, I can't speak for others on the forum either, but I haven't ever seen any such comments in open carry discussions.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  13. #87
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    I've never equated anyone who carries to an anti, I can't speak for others on the forum either, but I haven't ever seen any such comments in open carry discussions.
    You have to go back a few. There have been.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  14. #88
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    It seems that it was too late at that point.
    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    Another take on the story. According to a witness, he was going to produce his ID when he was arrested. Granted, the witness is sympathetic...

    Witness: Troy Teen Arrested for Carrying Rifle 'Was in His Legal Right' - Troy, MI Patch

    Who knows what really happened. Certainly none of us.

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    Because the article says he was an OC activist and that he wouldn't cooperate with the police. Isn't that looking for trouble?
    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    Don't talk to police = criminal charge. Okey doke. So much for those constitutional rights.

    As for the second point, how do you know "he was looking for trouble." Facts not in evidence....


    PS: I'm not saying he wasn't lawfully detained. I'm saying the argument that he committed a criminal act for refusing to talk to the police is one that rests on a sandy foundation.

  16. #90
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    Don't talk to police = criminal charge. Okey doke. So much for those constitutional rights.
    Yes it is illegal to not talk to them. You MUST inform them that you are not going to answer possible incriminating questions and that you do not consent to a search. If you do not inform them it is disorderly conduct.
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

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