Unarmed man attempts gun grab on OC'er - Page 5

Unarmed man attempts gun grab on OC'er

This is a discussion on Unarmed man attempts gun grab on OC'er within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "From my observation I would say less than 20 percent". (QUOTE) suntzu And that figure may be on the generous side. It could be much ...

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Thread: Unarmed man attempts gun grab on OC'er

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Cool

    "From my observation I would say less than 20 percent". (QUOTE) suntzu


    And that figure may be on the generous side. It could be much lower.

    It was like pulling teeth to get LEO's interested enough to practice outside of yearly qualifying.

    That's sad when your life or the life of others could depend on your skill and ability.

    I was very fortunate to have my training paid for by state and local governments for many years and to also be sent to schools to be a defensive tactics trainer.

    Training needs to be repetative and done on a regular basis to maintain efficiency.

    I know this is a well worn saying but it is the absolute truth, "You fight the way you train".

    I hope I am preaching to the choir.

    OS
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

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  2. #62
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I agree. All folks need to train constantly. And if the reason one carries is for SD then they should also train on other means of defense. Combative s or what ever. But I hardly know anyone that carries that does more than go to the range and punch wholes in targets. I was going to start a poll to see what folks think is the percentage of people that carry (OC or CC) actually do train realistically and do other training. Whether it be combativies or just running or working out to stay in shape so you can defend your self. From my observation I would say less than 20 percent.
    Start the poll.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    This is possibly the third time I have heard of this happening to someone who was OC. I have heard of far more CC'ers who were disarmed. It happens no matter what mode of carry you may choose to employ. In any confrontation, there is always at least one gun present when you are carrying.

    I would never carry in anything less than a level II holster. But that's just me.
    carracer likes this.
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  4. #64
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    This is possibly the third time I have heard of this happening to someone who was OC. I have heard of far more CC'ers who were disarmed. It happens no matter what mode of carry you may choose to employ. In any confrontation, there is always at least one gun present when you are carrying.

    I would never carry in anything less than a level II holster. But that's just me.
    CC'ers who get disarmed must not know what "CC" means. If the bad guy knows you've got it, you ain't CC anymore.

    I expect far more shenanigans like this, as OC becomes more common. That is, IF OC becomes more common. Despite the legality of OC in a lot of places, most people who carry do so discretely. I know some people just can't stand it if they can't introduce a deadly weapon into every social interaction during their day, but hey, variety is the spice of life, isn't it?

    I'd better go stick my finger in a light socket, now. I'd hate to lose the right to do so. "A right unexercised," and all that.......
    wmhawth likes this.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  5. #65
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    I thought OC scared bad guys away???
    As we say in any law or criminal justice classes... "there is ALWAYS an exception to the law" in this case there is always an exception to the norm. Crazy people or people on drugs do not follow the normal

    "i'm a criminal and I want an easy target, not an armed person pattern."
    TN_Mike likes this.
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    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    I'd better go stick my finger in a light socket, now. I'd hate to lose the right to do so. "A right unexercised," and all that.......
    Wow, OC = masochistic self-torture??

    Why can't we all just agree that the fact that someone IS carrying is more important than HOW they carry?
    carracer and TN_Mike like this.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  7. #67
    Member Array Truckdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I OC and CC. It is a personal choice but more than that. It is a right. Listening to the back and forths between CC'ers and OC'ers is like watching the republican primary. Everybody suppose to be supporting the same thing but in fight with each other.
    I agree. Unless you're just out to make a YouTube video I support all carry. Your gun may deter one criminal and yet attract another one. You may be targeted because you appear unarmed. Both sides are right. Both methods have pros and cons. I'm pretty new to the forum and already gave up trying to make sense of the "my way is the only way" mentality. If you are a responsible gun owner trying to protect you and yours, I support you.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Maybe the best of both worlds would be to carry a real gun concealed, then carry a good airsoft replica openly in a holster. So some bad guys will be deterred by the sight of the openly carried gun. Other bad guns try to steal your gun, only to find it is fake as they are getting shot by your real gun.

    Obviously, I'm just kidding.. but if you were to frequent an area known for this type of thing to happen, I suppose it would be worth a shot.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

  9. #69
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    I hope I am preaching to the choir.

    Old School I wish you were but unfortunately you are preaching to many singers but very few choir members.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  10. #70
    Member Array skunkworks's Avatar
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    No disrespect intended, but sounds like dumb idea to invite attention you don't need. I can imagine the argument in court over baiting someone into a violent encounter.
    You might as well get a fake badge or wear a SWAT t-shirt in order to dissuade would-be attackers. It's like putting up signs or stickers on our house that say "this property protected by..." or "beware of dog" when there isn't either a security system or a dog. Not to mention the risk of becoming lazy in your practices because you are carrying a fake gun.
    I know it was only half-serious and hypothetical, but man..... I just don't see any good coming from trying to outsmart your opponent. The truth is: the more you try to predict what will happen, the more susceptible you are to being taken by surprise when it doesn't go that way. Train for realistic scenarios yes, but train to react to the others move, don't create it for him.
    I'll keep my freedom, my liberty, and my guns. You can keep the change.

  11. #71
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Open Carry advocates may be learning more and at a higher rate of speed, than any other gun ethusiasts. In just a few years they went from "It never happens" to "that is an outlier" to "is does not happen systematically" to "the acceptance of needing training because retention is a real issue."

    It is not about "I told you so!" It has always been about people with a ton more experience trying to tone down and play devils advocate to the perpetuation of ignorance, so good people did not die just because they listened to somebody acting like they had a lot more experience than they did.

    I've pissed off a lot of open carry people with my "Do's and Don'ts of Open Carry" articles, but I have made ten times more open carry friends than open carry enemies because of them. How do I know? Because they train with me.

    Education, knowledge of historical fact, understanding of the street, training, and experience far exceeds overly vocal ignorance and arrogance.

    I open carry at times, but I do not do it following a "know nothing political activist only." I follow long proven historical fact and experience. Those two things prove beyond any doubt that the more I open carry the more squared away I need to be.

    "A gun is not a talisman that wards off evil!"
    Last edited by Sweatnbullets; April 24th, 2012 at 10:54 PM.
    tacman605, TN_Mike and wmhawth like this.

  12. #72
    Member Array jrclen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I was going to start a poll to see what folks think is the percentage of people that carry (OC or CC) actually do train realistically and do other training. Whether it be combativies or just running or working out to stay in shape so you can defend your self. From my observation I would say less than 20 percent.
    You can put me in the 20%. I am to damn old and lazy to be running, jumping, and working out. I practice my draw and hitting what I want to make holes in. I do not go out on patrol any longer, so I don't feel I need to train as an active combat team member. Not that I have a problem with those who do.
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  13. #73
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I don't open carry, but it's not all that hard to see that I'm carrying concealed in the hot Texas summers. I carry a 4" fixed bladed (currently a Strider DB-L or EB/DB) on my support side, blade forward, in front of my spare mags. I've spent a good bit of time training in hand to hand as well as edged weapons. Emerson, Bram Frank and Craig Douglas come highly recommended for attack response training. Just like anything else, training for this will get you to a point where you may actually be able to use it when the time comes and some of the edged weapon firearm retention techniques are extremely fast, efficient and very effective.

    I know the chance of using your firearm during normal life activities is rare and surely it's even more rare that someone will try a gun grab, but the chance is still there and I'm one to believe if you're going to carry a firearm for work or defense that you better train... and if you train, you might as well train for all types of scenarios. I know plinking paper at the range is most peoples' idea of "training", but getting out there to some quality classes, learning hand to hand, edged weapons, working on different drills and most of all, focusing on mindset. You can be extremely well equipped with weapons and training, but drop the ball when the time comes because your mind isn't there. Most overlook this even though it has gotten MANY victims, including law enforcement officers, killed because they weren't willing to use overwhelming violence or shoot first in some instances.

    A gun grab is a bad thing. It's rare, but it needs our attention in training so it doesn't happen to us. Or, so a particular forum member can call us Rambos and ninjas. Either way, the outcome will be positive and it'll be one more tool in the toolbox (as much as I hate that saying).
    tacman605 and suntzu like this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  14. #74
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    CC'ers who get disarmed must not know what "CC" means. If the bad guy knows you've got it, you ain't CC anymore.

    I expect far more shenanigans like this, as OC becomes more common. That is, IF OC becomes more common. Despite the legality of OC in a lot of places, most people who carry do so discretely. I know some people just can't stand it if they can't introduce a deadly weapon into every social interaction during their day, but hey, variety is the spice of life, isn't it?

    I'd better go stick my finger in a light socket, now. I'd hate to lose the right to do so. "A right unexercised," and all that.......
    My friend, I can't tell you the number of supposed concealed carriers who I can clearly see the outline of a gun on their hip, or the belt holster showing below their shirt. I have noticed that the majority of concealed carriers tend to be oblivious of the fact that they are printing or otherwise giving their armed status away. As a result, alot of those CC'ers seem pretty oblivious to their surroundings and in condition white.

    Vaquero, you seem to be the perfect example of the anti open carry guy. As I have said before, I have found that open carriers tend to be accepting of folks who CC or OC and are just more concerned the person does carry. But guys like you are very against OC, see it as only trouble making and think those of us who OC are dumb. You are, whether you know it or accept it, espousing at least partly the line of the anti gun/anti carry crowd. I don't understand it, but thee it is.

    I see you live in Indiana as well. We just moved back to Tennessee from Indiana. Indiana is an Open Carry state you know. While not as common there as it is here in the South I did see some open carry there. And on a side note, Thank God we do not live in Indiana anymore.
    suntzu likes this.
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  15. #75
    Member Array CaptainHaplo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    I expect far more shenanigans like this, as OC becomes more common. That is, IF OC becomes more common.
    This makes no sense..... The more common OC becomes - the less likely a gun grab will occur. Why? Simple - if 25% of the people around some knucklehead are carrying, and he goes for one firearm - you can bet the other OC'ers are going to act. Even if that number is only 10% - and you can even let some of them be CC - the principle is the same. Someone grabs for someone elses gun, it becomes a "situation"......

    OC will become more common as we the informed not only exercise our rights, but exercise them responsibly.

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