Text from the Open Carry flier that we handed out at the Expo Boise gun show

This is a discussion on Text from the Open Carry flier that we handed out at the Expo Boise gun show within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; @OP - the title would be better off not using terms that could be used to belittle. For example: DID YOU KNOW YOU HAVE THE ...

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Thread: Text from the Open Carry flier that we handed out at the Expo Boise gun show

  1. #31
    Member Array CaptainHaplo's Avatar
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    @OP - the title would be better off not using terms that could be used to belittle. For example:

    DID YOU KNOW YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO RESPONSIBLY OPEN CARRY IN THE STATE OF OHIO?
    BECOME EDUCATED ON YOUR 2nd AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND THE LAWS OF THE STATE!
    LEARN HOW AND WHEN YOU CAN LEGALLY USE A FIREARM IN DEFENSE OF YOURSELF, YOUR FAMILY AND OTHERS!

    This not only does not "challenge" the "man/woman hood" of the person recieving the flyer, it also makes it clear that your out to inform the public or their rights AND responsibilities, not challenge people to do something "because they can".
    Just knowing you "can" carry is one thing - knowing when to properly USE your firearm is just as - if not more - important. Knowing HOW to use it properly is critical.

    If we want to educate the public, we cannot ignore the realities that these issues are intertwined and must not be seperated!

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    If exercising a right got it taken away, did you ever REALLY have it in the first place??
    You don't understand, I get that. Peace.
    Socialism Kills! Time proven, with a very large body count! We are a Constitutional Republic....... not a Democracy, get it correct!

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    So you are saying the GUN attracted the criminals to to armored car, and not the MONEY?? With the amount of cash transported and the minuscule amount of robberies that happen, your point is moot, IMHO.

    If it is NOT a deterrent, why don't they CC? I submit that they don't CC, because they want people to KNOW they are armed.
    No, I am saying your argument isn't very convincing.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    If exercising a right got it taken away, did you ever REALLY have it in the first place??
    Yes, and now it is gone.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo View Post
    @OP - the title would be better off not using terms that could be used to belittle. For example:

    DID YOU KNOW YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO RESPONSIBLY OPEN CARRY IN THE STATE OF OHIO?
    BECOME EDUCATED ON YOUR 2nd AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND THE LAWS OF THE STATE!
    LEARN HOW AND WHEN YOU CAN LEGALLY USE A FIREARM IN DEFENSE OF YOURSELF, YOUR FAMILY AND OTHERS!

    This not only does not "challenge" the "man/woman hood" of the person recieving the flyer, it also makes it clear that your out to inform the public or their rights AND responsibilities, not challenge people to do something "because they can".
    Just knowing you "can" carry is one thing - knowing when to properly USE your firearm is just as - if not more - important. Knowing HOW to use it properly is critical.

    If we want to educate the public, we cannot ignore the realities that these issues are intertwined and must not be seperated!
    Thank you for getting the point of my original rebuttal, and articulating it accurately.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Yes, and now it is gone.
    I'm not sure I follow. What is the point of a right if exercising it gets it banned? That's like saying, "You have the right to dance in public, BUT don't do it, because we will take it away if you do!" IMO it is a right only in theory if exercising it gets it taken away.

    Wisconsin had OC before they had CC, now they have both, same with OH. People still OC in both of those states, and there is no talk of repeal.
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

  8. #37
    Member Array CaptainHaplo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    I'm not sure I follow. What is the point of a right if exercising it gets it banned? That's like saying, "You have the right to dance in public, BUT don't do it, because we will take it away if you do!" IMO it is a right only in theory if exercising it gets it taken away.

    Wisconsin had OC before they had CC, now they have both, same with OH. People still OC in both of those states, and there is no talk of repeal.
    Badey,

    It's not IF you exercise the right - its HOW you do so. IF OC'ers in CA acted like morons, looking for confrontation with LE, etc - then they failed to act RESPONSIBLY. Using your "dance" example - if your swing dancing or shag dancing or square dancing in public, fine. If you and your girl are pole dancing and peeling off layers of clothing in public - your likely to get the "right" to do so taken away, because your using it irresponsibly by exposing your self to the general public in a way that creates (at the least) a nuisance. Surely you can see how carrying a firearm in an irresponsible manner or with an irresponsible mindset can cause damage.

    Using a right by itself will not get the right banned. Using it STUPIDLY will.... It is my impression (because I have never lived there) that this distinction is why the right to OC was banned.
    rickohio and tacman605 like this.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    I'm not sure I follow. What is the point of a right if exercising it gets it banned? That's like saying, "You have the right to dance in public, BUT don't do it, because we will take it away if you do!" IMO it is a right only in theory if exercising it gets it taken away.

    Wisconsin had OC before they had CC, now they have both, same with OH. People still OC in both of those states, and there is no talk of repeal.
    Perhaps we should start an off-topic thread entitled "Bad Analogies". In-your-face confrontationalism isn't like dancing in public. If dancing naked in public causes everyone to lose the right to dance in public, people should leave their clothes on.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Perhaps we should start an off-topic thread entitled "Bad Analogies". In-your-face confrontationalism isn't like dancing in public. If dancing naked in public causes everyone to lose the right to dance in public, people should leave their clothes on.
    Again, I think my analogy applies, b/c the few idiots you see on youtube are not representative of the OC public. Sure, people streak across baseball and football fields, but that does not mean we should ban sports arenas (which I'm sure isn't perfect, but IMO is still an applicable analogy)... We don't think most fans are streakers, so why do we think most OCers are jerks???

    The difference with your analogy is that OCing WAS legal, dancing in public naked IS NOT, nor was it...
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    Again, I think my analogy applies, b/c the few idiots you see on youtube are not representative of the OC public. Sure, people streak across baseball and football fields, but that does not mean we should ban sports arenas (which I'm sure isn't perfect, but IMO is still an applicable analogy)... We don't think most fans are streakers, so why do we think most OCers are jerks???

    The difference with your analogy is that OCing WAS legal, dancing in public naked IS NOT, nor was it...
    And OC'ing in general cannot be equated to the amount of the public that chooses to indulge in watching live sports at an arena.... The amount of people that are choose to attend sporting events is much more massive, not to mention the fact that the general public has a firm knowledge of the right of everyone to attend said events. The same cannot be said of OC'ing.

    Dancing in public is not - your right. But then again - if you dance with your clothes on - and start removing them - do you think you will get complaints before you get fully nude? Try it sometime - go dance at the town square and strip down to a thong and see if there isn't a public outcry - regardless of your body style. It doesn't have to violate the law to violate the sense of public decency - and if there is an outcry, you can expect a response from the powers that be.

    Where I live, Going Armed to the Terror of the Public (GATTOP) is not an uncommon charge - even though OC is legal. You don't have to always violate the "letter" of the law to cause trouble - for yourself and for others - you can simply act stupid and violate common sense and cause yourself or others issues.

    Maybe the analogy is bad - but it doesn't change the point that you are smart enough to grasp.... Exercising your rights will not get those rights taken away - exercising them in a stupid, irresponsible manner can result in enough pushback to curtail those rights.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    Again, I think my analogy applies, b/c the few idiots you see on youtube are not representative of the OC public. Sure, people streak across baseball and football fields, but that does not mean we should ban sports arenas (which I'm sure isn't perfect, but IMO is still an applicable analogy)... We don't think most fans are streakers, so why do we think most OCers are jerks???

    The difference with your analogy is that OCing WAS legal, dancing in public naked IS NOT, nor was it...
    WAS being the operative word, but still, naked dancing in public IS legal in many places around the world where carrying a firearm, concealed or otherwise, is not.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  13. #42
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    Actually at this particular point in time there are not that many people (percentage wise) that carry open as compared to the number of people that carry concealed but, if you instead research the number of armed (carrying open) armed security guards that either get "taken out" first or forcibly relieved of their firearms (worldwide) the numbers are more significant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    Mike, you may have some point with some OCers, however, I don't think the generalization applies to most OCers.

    Secondly, If OC attracts criminals, why do armored car drivers OC? Do they want to attract MORE criminals, or is there a chance that it is a deterrent?


    You know that most times when people are trying to advance their rights, it has come about through "in-your-face" assertion of those rights. OC has been around for a while, and more people are doing it, yet, surprisingly, I have yet to see any damage done to the 2A cause.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Does the thought of open carry in public make you feel confident, assertive and cocky? If so, then learning these few facts may deflate your ego and rain on your parade:
    With Freudian mindset, a gun represents an extension of one's manhood; accordingly a public display of one's gun is the societal equivalent of exposing oneself.
    Open carry is the anti-gun crowd's ace in the hole against 2nd Amendment rights, allowing them to play upon the public's fear of something they otherwise wouldn't think about. If you frighten and intimidate the public badly enough, the backlash can act against everyone's rights, as recently demonstrated in California.
    95% of Americans have no interest whatsoever in participating in open carry, regardless of legality or lack of permit requirements.
    Open carry, unlike concealed carry, forewarns criminals of their victim's ability to resist and allows them to to plan their strategies accordingly.

    Open carry is the in-your-face application of the controversial, fragile and much-maligned Second Amendment, providing much-needed publicity to all who oppose it.
    The "fragile and much-maligned Second Amendment" is just that because of the anti gun left and their compatriots within gun ownership circles who oppose our "right" and our practice of that "right". In Idaho OC is protected by
    our state's constitution and it is those traitors who promote the anti-gunners agenda by carrying their water in opposing Open Carry, it is they who jeopardize the 2nd Amendment.

    Tony@IdahoOpenCarry.org
    Open Carry is the Bold Beautiful Face of the 2nd Amendment

  15. #44
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    So, you were just being rhetorical when you asked for suggestions and improvement then?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  16. #45
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    You may have missed these STICKY notes prior to posting here. Suggest that you read them before you continue.

    "The "fragile and much-maligned Second Amendment" is just that because of the anti gun left and their compatriots within gun ownership circles who oppose our "right" and our practice of that "right". In Idaho OC is protected by our state's constitution and it is those traitors who promote the anti-gunners agenda by carrying their water in opposing Open Carry, it is they who jeopardize the 2nd Amendment.

    Please keep in mind that we are primarily a concealed carry focused forum.....so calling concealed carry members "traitors" because they may show some opposition to open carry for some very valid reasons will not bode well for you here on DefensiveCarry. One more statement like that one above will buy you a ticket out of here. Just FYI.


    Read Me First: Important Posting Information
    Well, I hate to be a "killjoy" be we are getting an increasing number of posts that are not posted in the proper forum. Many of you have complained that these off topic posts are cluttering up the forums and dragging the focus off topic. For us to move off topic posts to another thread is a 5 step process that is very prone to errors and is taking much too much time to keep straight. I know this is going to get some of you upset but I am going to go through each of the topics (in each thread) and delete "off topic" posts that add nothing to the topic being discussed. I'm only going to do this once and then will delete them daily as I find them. If any of you find anything out of place, please let me know.

    Please take the time to insure that your post is on topic and, if not, post it in the appropriate place. If you have something you want to post, but cannot decide where to put it, shoot me a PM and I will help you decide. Everything is safe from being deleted in the off topic fourms, but they may be moved to an on topic forum if need be


    Important: New Open Carry Forum - Please read
    This new forum is being established in response to those of you that want a place to discuss open carry, in those States that legally allow it, without leaving this forum.

    This is, as most of you know, a deviation of our previous policy of discouraging open carry threads. The policy was put in place several years ago when there seemed to be a confrontational tone to many of those threads. Like everything, though, things change in time, including DefensiveCarry.

    While our policy has been changed and we now encourage the posting of threads regarding open carry, we will continue enforcing our rules regarding civility within the forum. This forum will not allow the endless debate of "us vs them". We are all gun owners that believe in the right to carry, either openly or concealed and it's time that we start understanding that we are all on the same side. We are all responsible gun owners that follow the law whether we agree with them or not.

    In establishing this new forum, I am asking our members to help "self-police" it by using the report feature should you see a thread heating up. If the decision to include open carry in our topics turn into a disaster, this forum will be removed and we will go back to the way things previous to this change.

    As always, enjoy the forum!

    Changes to the Open Carry forum
    When we originally opened this forum, I added a notation that this was not the place to "debate the virtues of open carry", essentially making it a protected forum. I have, since then, debated whether this was the right thing to do since we did not place any restrictions on other forums.

    Open carry is a controversial subject, particularly when those that do OC do so specifically to garner attention to the practice. While we still discourage arguments over this topic, we will no longer offer "protection" for those who's practices invoke controversy. We now all stand on even ground but we will not hesitate to issue infractions for those that cross the line in comments and rebuttals.

    If you can accept these changes, we will continue to welcome you to this forum. If not, there is another forum out there that may be more to your liking....
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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