Ga man just won the OC/cop lottery - Page 3

Ga man just won the OC/cop lottery

This is a discussion on Ga man just won the OC/cop lottery within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Harryball The stunt, carrying a audio recorder. I guess for most of us in the world we dont strap on, grab the ...

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Thread: Ga man just won the OC/cop lottery

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    The stunt, carrying a audio recorder. I guess for most of us in the world we dont strap on, grab the recorder and go out into the world looking for a reason to be an ass to others. Then recording the incident to prove that we were wronged. This type of mentality is just want the antis need to prove there cause, that all carriers OC and CC are just out to make a point. I didnt work in cali, and I fear it could bleed over to other states as well.
    Is gathering evidence to prove your innocence illegal?
    I admit that wearing a wire might make it appear that you are looking for trouble. It also might prove that citizens recognize a past history of governmental abuse of personal liberties. I wonder if anyone would go to the trouble of wearing a wire if the government did not have a history of overstepping its powers?

    Can anyone tell me how we can stop this person from doing what he did without giving up our rights? Can I make a law that makes what he did illegal without taking away my right to carry my rifle to the outskirts of town for some target practice, plinking or hunting?

    Michael


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    The stunt, carrying a audio recorder.
    Nowadays iPhones and similar are ubiquitous. There's an app for that. So carrying an iPhone is OK
    but a device marked "recorder" isn't? Where's the line?

    If you are in a state where it is legal to make
    a recording in a public place, one party permission, what's the issue?
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Entrapment is frowned upon no matter who does it. IF that was the purpose.
    DoctorBob and The Old Anglo like this.
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  4. #34
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Googel Gwinnett County PD & See how many O/C harrasment casses they Paid out ; )
    H/D
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    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    2 questions:

    Why do people who open carry have such a huge issue with showing ID? Would they take that same "you don't need to see it" position if they weren't open carrying? Maybe open carry would be more widely accepted if people didn't act confrontational or seem unwilling to cooperate when questioned by an police officer.
    I won't comment on this case as I wasn't there, haven't heard the recording, etc., but there is a huge misconception as far as identifying one's self to LEOs and producing ID.

    If I'm carrying a CW, in FL I must have ID (DL, ST ID, etc.) and produce it upon demand along with my CWFL if requested. The CWFL itself is not a form of identification. Likewise, If I'm driving, I must produce a DL if requested. However, if I'm simply walking around, legal in all aspects, no state/federal law that I'm aware of requires I carry identification. If requested to identify myself by authorities, a simple verbal statement (I am OldVet) is sufficient identification. There was a federal case years ago in CA where police harassed and arrested a guy for not carrying ID. He won in court, which ruled not possessing a form of ID was not a violation of law.
    wrearick likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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  6. #36
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rotorblade
    2 questions:

    Why do people who open carry have such a huge issue with showing ID? Would they take that same "you don't need to see it" position if they weren't open carrying? Maybe open carry would be more widely accepted if people didn't act confrontational or seem unwilling to cooperate when questioned by an police officer.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I won't comment on this case as I wasn't there, haven't heard the recording, etc., but there is a huge misconception as far as identifying one's self to LEOs and producing ID.

    If I'm carrying a CW, in FL I must have ID (DL, ST ID, etc.) and produce it upon demand along with my CWFL if requested. The CWFL itself is not a form of identification. Likewise, If I'm driving, I must produce a DL if requested. However, if I'm simply walking around, legal in all aspects, no state/federal law that I'm aware of requires I carry identification. If requested to identify myself by authorities, a simple verbal statement (I am OldVet) is sufficient identification. There was a federal case years ago in CA where police harassed and arrested a guy for not carrying ID. He won in court, which ruled not possessing a form of ID was not a violation of law.
    The same question is often posed to folks who refuse to permit searches. If they would just cooperate they would make the governments job much easier.

    Michael
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  7. #37
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    You miss the point. The officer had NO right whats so ever to bother the man. If you are not operating a motor vehicle then you can not be forced to produce a drivers license.
    In our state you are not required to produce any ID just because an office ask. The lib's forced that law. But they arrest people all the timer for not showing one. It is throw out but they keep doing it. It is time the LEO get back to enforcing real laws.
    If you are with in the law they need to leave you alone the fact they don't like it is meaningless.
    So a Black man is walking down the street in a all white area of town LEO does not like it he has no right to bother the man he has done nothing wrong.
    If he does even question him watch the head lines in 24 hours.
    LEO do not have any right to make up laws as the go. That is what they have been doing.
    I get stopped 4-6 times a year 2-4 am on a Saturday of Friday night on my bike, never any real reason. Flash light in the eyes a real mean tone how much you been drinking boy or son. About two pots of coffee officer. Off the bike then the fun starts. I do not drink , I am just one of those that does not do it.
    Then I ask why you stopped me always the same lie my tail light was not working,no brake light ect. Funny nothing wrong with it now.
    There are a whole lot of BG's walking around, lot of drug dealing going on They need to work on that not playing games just because they do like a right you have.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Array Crescentstar's Avatar
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    Choosing not to identify himself is one thing, knowingly providing a false DOB is obstruction of justice. He handed them a reason to arrest. Who baited who?
    "Clearly that's a YOU problem not a ME problem."

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    A bit premature to say that any lottery has been won.

    In any event, I am certainly thankful that my life is not so mind-numbingly pathetic that I have to troll for drama in local parks. I'm sure he wasn't acting suspicious or doing anything to draw LE attention, of course. That's why he carries a voice recorder with him everywhere he goes.

    I don't know all of the specifics of this incident, but even our "OC hero" admits being rude to security and the police. I'm betting there's more that he's not telling us.

    I'm sure he was just OC'ing for "comfort" and "deterrence," though.
    We carry voice recorders exactly for this purpose, because sometimes LEOs abuse citizens rights, and when it is your word against an LEO with no witness, you are screwed!! A voice recorder provides everyone with an exact account of what happened. Most open carriers carry a recorder for their own protection, because, we obviously need it.

    Also, if you had read his own account, he said he has been carrying in this manner at this park for a year. If he was looking for trouble, he would have found it much earlier.
    gigamortis likes this.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescentstar View Post
    Choosing not to identify himself is one thing, knowingly providing a false DOB is obstruction of justice. He handed them a reason to arrest. Who baited who?
    Actually, it depends on the state. Here in pennsylvania, while I would not recommend or condone it, it is perfectly legal to lie to a police officer. I think it is ill-advised, but it is not illegal.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    You are not required to provide proof of who you are, or ID ...... you are required to provide a driver's license if driving a vehicle, but otherwise you are not. On the other side, officers get a lot of people who will tell them they are Santa Claus, so like proof that you are who you say you are.

    But, that's his point.

    Too many people assume that you are ...... but this is not Germany in the 1940's where you are required to show your papers.
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  12. #42
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    While I understand that this forum is mostly for concealed carry issues I am however amazed how many posters here seem to believe that people that open carry do it to provoke.

    From what I read about this case all the person was doing against the law that day was nothing. As it turned out he was within his 1st and 2nd amendment rights and had his 4th amendment rights violated. For that he got to spend 12 hours in jail and a $1300 bond and now lawyer fees to show he did nothing wrong. Thing is they knew(the police) he was doing nothing wrong but took him in probably because he didn't "bow to them" rather instead stood up for his rights. Many officers simply do not like that. The security guard and what he said to him is a non-issue.

    As for the open carry issue.... I applaud the open carry advocates by what they do. I feel we need to attempt to do things to desensitize the American anti gun citizens. I have stated in other threads that concealed carry is similar to what the military did with the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Yes, I know and have heard the arguments for concealed carry. However, isn't it time the 2nd amendment advocates "came out".

    As 2nd amendment advocates we have a tough never ending battle ahead of us. While we might not advocate open carry we should not attack it in various ways such as "they open carry just to provoke", etc. They are on the side of the 2nd amendment and deserve our support. For those that do not like the issue of open carry please try to bite you tongue and say nothing.

    Seems strange that we have a guaranteed right and we try not to let anyone know we exercise it. Most church goers I know do not sneak in the back door when they go to worship. Most people that express free speech/assembly do not attempt to hide who they are are.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
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    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burns View Post
    This doesn't mean he is going to see a cent. Stuff like this happens all the time. Look on youtube...
    Doesn't mean he won't get and many.

    West Allis pays $30,000 to man arrested for wearing gun - JSOnline

    City of Madison to pay $10,000 for Open Carry incident at Culver’s Restaurant | Concealed Wisconsin

    These are just 2 incidents. I am sure there are cases from other states.

    Also, a better suggestion would be to search newspaper/news sites for information rather than YouTube. Usually more accurate info.

    Links to many newspaper web pages in the US
    Newspapers of the USA listed by each State of the Union : United States Online Newspapers : www.onlinenewspapers.com
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Two are breaking the law, one is not. You have a problem with the one NOT breaking any law? That's an interesting point of view.
    Absolutely. Whether a man's conduct is right or wrong, moral or immoral, is not determined by the laws of his jurisdiction. You can be right without being legal, and you can be a dirtbag and still remain completely within the law.

    In the 2 links provided by suntzu, those citizens would have been doing absolutely nothing illegal or wrong in my home state. However, a man trolling for confrontation in the hopes of a "payday" or internet notoriety is a douchebag in all 50 states, if you ask me.

    Do you base your idea of right and wrong on the letter of the law in your little corner of the world, or do you take a broader view? Just because one can legally act like a smarmy little punk does not make the conduct noble or correct. I can't even fathom living a life with such a ridiculous siege mentality that I'd have to carry a voice recorder around with me. Funny how these OC advocates just "minding their own business" seem to get caught up in situations like this. Quite the coincidence, I think.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    The stunt, carrying a audio recorder. I guess for most of us in the world we dont strap on, grab the recorder and go out into the world looking for a reason to be an ass to others. Then recording the incident to prove that we were wronged. This type of mentality is just want the antis need to prove there cause, that all carriers OC and CC are just out to make a point. I didnt work in cali, and I fear it could bleed over to other states as well.
    I'm wondering what it would take for you to ever see the side of someone OC'ing. Really? How else do you think he might prove he was wronged if he was? Or am I to assume that you could care less if he was wronged since he was OC'ing?

    Personally, I don't carry a recorder. I've considered it. But I've got enough crap in my pockets. If I had a smart phone I would certainly have the app. But my experience with local LE has been mostly professional in regards to OC. Talked to a few cops on my property, at a couple stores, and during an accident with no issues. Currently, I'm assuming that history will continue. If I ever get the feeling it is changing, I will get a recorder.

    I will carry a recorder if I feel the need to before I give up my RIGHT to OC. You may be willing to give up my rights for me, but I certainly am not.
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