Ga man just won the OC/cop lottery

This is a discussion on Ga man just won the OC/cop lottery within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 64zebra I'm not saying I agree with vaquero's statement that you put in bold and are discussing above ( nor am I ...

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Thread: Ga man just won the OC/cop lottery

  1. #106
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    I'm not saying I agree with vaquero's statement that you put in bold and are discussing above (nor am I arguing against OC).....but in reference to your analogy here....there is a big difference between a cop in a uniform that people know carries a gun vs joe on the street in shorts and a tshirt that people don't know carries a gun

    :
    There may be some difference, but that is just because enough people haven't open carried yet, IMO. If you go to South America, it is normal to see LEOs with AKs. If you saw that here, you would think something BIG must be happening. Similarly, the more people open carry, the less of a perceived difference there will be between a uniformed LEO OCing and Average Joe OCing.
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

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  3. #107
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    There may be some difference, but that is just because enough people haven't open carried yet, IMO. If you go to South America, it is normal to see LEOs with AKs. If you saw that here, you would think something BIG must be happening. Similarly, the more people open carry, the less of a perceived difference there will be between a uniformed LEO OCing and Average Joe OCing.
    It is getting close to the point where a lot of LEO's look more and more like para military than LEO's. Some LEO's up in NH wear black fatigues while doing traffic duty. Some of the deputies look like they are trying our for a Navy Seal or Green Beret movie.
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  4. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    There may be some difference, but that is just because enough people haven't open carried yet, IMO. If you go to South America, it is normal to see LEOs with AKs. If you saw that here, you would think something BIG must be happening. Similarly, the more people open carry, the less of a perceived difference there will be between a uniformed LEO OCing and Average Joe OCing.
    maybe I didn't word it correctly, but you missed my point.....I'm saying your analogy in reference to Vaquero's post isn't quite applicable
    I do agree that the more people OC-ing in places where legal will acclimate the and the antis to see that its not evil, but thats not the same as comparing to a uniformed officer since OC-ing is part of our job
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  5. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    It is getting close to the point where a lot of LEO's look more and more like para military than LEO's. Some LEO's up in NH wear black fatigues while doing traffic duty. Some of the deputies look like they are trying our for a Navy Seal or Green Beret movie.
    yep, I don't like LEO wearing black unless its for a tactical unit with a purpose such as at night
    good ole blue like we wear seems more professional looking IMO, and I think it looks more sharp, we don't wear external tac vests unless its a special unit/special assignment, day to day patrol wears traditional navy blue uniform/equipment
    the tac vests being worn by patrol units is a little over the top at times, but in some places that is done for comfort = ie:external vest carrier is cooler vs wearing traditional vest under uniform in humid or hot conditions,
    there were times when I was on evening shift that I would have loved to had an external carrier, working wrecks/auto burglaries in 105 degrees on concrete/pavement in July with vest under uniform is no fun

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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
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  6. #110
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    So you think that people that openly carry a gun have problems trusting people, but you conceal because you trust everyone and think you'll never have to use it (that seems to be what you are saying)? What is the point of carrying a gun if you trust everyone?


    Honestly, I do want to thank you for your service as an LEO, but I find it interesting that you were an LEO yet are anti-open carry. How did you carry when you were an LEO? I'd bet pounds to pence that you OCed. If so, why didn't you just CC? I mean, that gun you wore might have scared some people...
    I don't trust everyone. That's what situational awareness is for. I do realize that the vast majority of the public aren't out to get me as I go along in my day-to-day activities. The chances of a lethal force encounter as a civilian minding my own business are slim to none, and I live in a metro area. I also haven't had a car accident for decades, but I'm not going to run out and cancel my auto insurance. Same principle. It is ridiculous to think that I need to display a gun everywhere I go, to ward off bad guys. To me, that's akin to wearing a helmet everywhere I go because a rock might get kicked up by a passing car and hit me in the head.

    You will note, in all of my posts, I have never, not once, said that OC should be illegal. However, just because something is perfectly legal does not mean that I need to support the behavior and embrace it. It isn't about guns, it's about behavior.

    Your question about OC'ing as an LEO in uniform is, frankly, quite silly. You know better. The gunbelt, gun and various equipment worn are part of the uniform. Duh. We are talking about civilian OC, not a cop's uniform. But if you want to use that argument, you should know that several police officers have been disarmed and killed with their own handguns, and this is with level II and III retention holsters. So much for the "deterrence" argument for OC.

    I don't know of even ONE of my fellow officers who open carries off duty, and this is a large metro police department. THAT should tell anyone with some common sense something.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  7. #111
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I think the thread is about ..... a guy who was doing something legal, while someone not legalliy authorized harrassed them and then called the cops, because the nimrod didn't understand the laws. The guy doing what was legal to do, then gets a trumped up charge.... because they can't prevent him from doing what he was legally doing, carrying a gun.

    In the old days, they called that harrassment.


    When it's all over, I hope he enjoys his new car and house.

    Mexicans, blacks, Indians, and others ..... received the same treatment in the past if they were found in the wrong area of town at night..... if they and many others had not stood up for their rights, it may be still going on. So, there is a 'solid' historical precedence behind "standing up for and exercising your rights", or they will continue to be stomped on.
    gigamortis, carracer and suntzu like this.
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  8. #112
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    Here is a link to the police report on the incident. One thing to take into consideration the officers only made the arrest "AFTER" calling the on duty magistrate for approval. The magistrate determined there was in fact probable cause for the arrest. Once a judge/magistrate determines there is probable cause and signs the warrant the officer is no longer liable so to speak the judge is and judges are exempt from civil litigation.

    Homeboy's actions led to his arrest. All he had to do was act like an adult just a little and it would have been done. The fact that he knew the CPL had the incorrect information will work against him. Once again he wanted attention and he got it.

    Christopher Allen Proescher
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  9. #113
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    "As for trespassing, it will be interesting to see how they explain he was trespassing when he was in the act of leaving as asked and the only reason he stuck around was because he was detained by LE. If he was asked to leave, and he was leaving, that does not seem to be trespassing to me. Unless we find out he was asked multiple times. That could be problematic. I bet the voice recorder shows that though. Funny how handy that thing might be."

    Local law can not over ride state law in GA, so that says he was not trestpassing. His actions were not up to par. When the police asked questions about his licence he must answer truthfully. The guard and the police should know the law about places where you can and cannot carry. Should he sue? I dont think so, but that is his right to do so.

  10. #114
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Here is a link to the police report on the incident. One thing to take into consideration the officers only made the arrest "AFTER" calling the on duty magistrate for approval. The magistrate determined there was in fact probable cause for the arrest. Once a judge/magistrate determines there is probable cause and signs the warrant the officer is no longer liable so to speak the judge is and judges are exempt from civil litigation.

    Homeboy's actions led to his arrest. All he had to do was act like an adult just a little and it would have been done. The fact that he knew the CPL had the incorrect information will work against him. Once again he wanted attention and he got it.

    Christopher Allen Proescher
    If he wanted attention, why did it take him a year of walking in the same park to get it?
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  11. #115
    Member Array Grantspastor's Avatar
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    Whether he was within his rights or not....there's a lot to be said about not acting like a jerk. Sounds to me like he could have easily avoided the escalation of the situation. Does sound like he was trolling for a confrontation. To me, that attitude and firearms don't mix well

  12. #116
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I read the police reports and from what a gather the man is a jerk. He got arrested on the word of a Security guard for crimminal trespassing. I hope that does not set a standard for he says she says. Again, a situation starts with somebody doing nothing wrong but being a jerk. If folks, individuals and govt mind thier own business' then stuff like this would not make the news. Almost everyincident you read about a person getting arrested for OC has nothing to do with them OC'ing. It is always something subsequent like disprderly conduct or in this case crimminal trespass. How does one crimminally trespass if they are carrying legally? I know..some would say his CPL was not valid becasue of the birthdate...but don't forget that the Security Guard did not know that. Here is the deal...for folks that think the dude is a jerk and/or don't like OC'ing in public they will assume that everything the Guard said is true. And everything the idiot said is not.

    So now we assume the Security Guard is telling the truth and assuming the OC'er is lying. You get arrested for that! Not one gun related charge unless I missed something.

  13. #117
    Member Array gobbly's Avatar
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    I'm not going to speak to this specific situation, but more to the general tactic of provoking confrontations. The reality is that there are places where police routinely harass people who OC. In those circumstances I support the people who take it upon themselves to take advantage of the situation to provoke court battles. Oftentimes without such action nothing changes. There is certainly precedent for this, as unfortunately to bring legal action in these circumstances you have to prove that you suffered in some way, or it just gets thrown out and ignored. Sure there are other tactics, such as rallies and demonstrations, but these aren't a panacea, there are plenty of places where the broad public support just isn't there, yet the individual should still be entitled to their rights under law.

    This isn't unique to firearms, it was practiced during the civil rights battles in the 50's and 60's, and in some cases was quite effective. It's also a tactic used against road checkpoints, in some cases with great success. Making it successful requires tact, and from the other comments it seems like in this case the tact was lacking, but as far as the strategy, I think in some cases it's really the last option left to oppose abuse by those in authority. Even lawyers have been known to utilize such tactics.

    Where I live, it took a court battle to bring our city in line with state law regarding firearms, and since then things have improved dramatically for the rights of the OC crowd, especially since part of the outcome meant a fairly large chunk of money spent on proper training of local LEO. I don't know if the guy went out looking for a provocation or not, but regardless, he fought an oppressive system and the outcome was a strengthening of the rights of everyone. To dismiss such tactics out of hand seems counterproductive imo.
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  14. #118
    Member Array Grantspastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobbly View Post
    I'm not going to speak to this specific situation, but more to the general tactic of provoking confrontations. The reality is that there are places where police routinely harass people who OC. In those circumstances I support the people who take it upon themselves to take advantage of the situation to provoke court battles. Oftentimes without such action nothing changes. There is certainly precedent for this, as unfortunately to bring legal action in these circumstances you have to prove that you suffered in some way, or it just gets thrown out and ignored. Sure there are other tactics, such as rallies and demonstrations, but these aren't a panacea, there are plenty of places where the broad public support just isn't there, yet the individual should still be entitled to their rights under law.

    This isn't unique to firearms, it was practiced during the civil rights battles in the 50's and 60's, and in some cases was quite effective. It's also a tactic used against road checkpoints, in some cases with great success. Making it successful requires tact, and from the other comments it seems like in this case the tact was lacking, but as far as the strategy, I think in some cases it's really the last option left to oppose abuse by those in authority. Even lawyers have been known to utilize such tactics.

    Where I live, it took a court battle to bring our city in line with state law regarding firearms, and since then things have improved dramatically for the rights of the OC crowd, especially since part of the outcome meant a fairly large chunk of money spent on proper training of local LEO. I don't know if the guy went out looking for a provocation or not, but regardless, he fought an oppressive system and the outcome was a strengthening of the rights of everyone. To dismiss such tactics out of hand seems counterproductive imo.
    Good counter point

  15. #119
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I read the police reports and from what a gather the man is a jerk. He got arrested on the word of a Security guard for crimminal trespassing. I hope that does not set a standard for he says she says. Again, a situation starts with somebody doing nothing wrong but being a jerk. If folks, individuals and govt mind thier own business' then stuff like this would not make the news. Almost everyincident you read about a person getting arrested for OC has nothing to do with them OC'ing. It is always something subsequent like disprderly conduct or in this case crimminal trespass. How does one crimminally trespass if they are carrying legally? I know..some would say his CPL was not valid becasue of the birthdate...but don't forget that the Security Guard did not know that. Here is the deal...for folks that think the dude is a jerk and/or don't like OC'ing in public they will assume that everything the Guard said is true. And everything the idiot said is not.

    So now we assume the Security Guard is telling the truth and assuming the OC'er is lying. You get arrested for that! Not one gun related charge unless I missed something.
    Nope, they were both idiots. The OCer will pay for being a jerk while CARRYING, and not having his CPL correct. We both know, that if your not playing by the rules, you can get burned. I would think a smart man would have his ducks in a row, if he were going to carry a gun. (either CC or OC)
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  16. #120
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    I'm not an OC'er and I'm not in favor of OC. However, I am also not in favor of government violating civil rights. I don't care if you are Black, Hispanic, Communist or Tea Party'er. I think there is a point at which we must demand that Police, as an arm of the government, follow all the rules they are sworn to enforce on others.

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    Because I was not a Jew.
    Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me
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