Marine get turned away from voting because of OC'ing - Page 5

Marine get turned away from voting because of OC'ing

This is a discussion on Marine get turned away from voting because of OC'ing within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I find it somewhat perplexing that some on this forum seem to really not like those that open carry. In many, if not all, the ...

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Thread: Marine get turned away from voting because of OC'ing

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    I find it somewhat perplexing that some on this forum seem to really not like those that open carry. In many, if not all, the states that allow open carry one does not need a permit to do so. Hmmm, sounds like the 2nd amendment at it finest. On the other hand most of the states that allow concealed carry require a paid permit and all sorts of "checks". Hmmmmm, sounds like infringement.

    I find open carry being attacked as stupid, trying to prove a point, they make it bad for all of us, etc., etc. On the other had when we conceal carry we make no statements whatsoever regarding our 2nd amendment rights. Seems that those the conceal carry and bad mouth open carry every chance they get are living in the closet. Maybe its time to "Come Out".

    Are we so naive to believe that die hard anti gun people can be convinced that it is the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms. For the most part open carry incidents do not turn off those that understand and agree that the 2nd amendment is a right the same as the right to worship as one sees fit.

    Nothing we do or don't to will ever stop the anti gun people/media from say "see, see, see we told you so". Darn never everything in America has become "them and us", "left and right", "blue and red", liberal and conservative", etc. To think that the 2nd amendment advocates will ever convince the anti 2nd amendments otherwise is futile. The "We" as it was meant to be is long gone and it doesn't seem the "them and us" well ever end.

    Good example is the federal government split 2 ways which for the most part always has been at least is the last 100 or so years. However at least years ago the government did accomplish things. Now the "them and us" is so strong that neither side will give and neither side has accomplished anything in a long time. America is turning stagnant.
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    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Another case of unintended consequence from OC.


    And I can't say what I think of any numb nut that would call Hopyard an anti.


    ^^^^^^^^I don't know if anyone ^^^^^^^^^

    was actually thinking Hopyard is anti-gun, which clearly he is not.

    Merely his purported stance on this issue at hand, may cause someone to possibly think he is from the pick-and-choose which rights I believe are OK crowd.

    To quote Glockman's sig. line,
    I think the police, and the officials got to stupid within a relatively quick time

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again,I respect Hopyards opinion, as he generally knows of what he speaks, and says it quite well.
    Will we always agree 100%.......?

    We will probably agree 75-90%, so I'm good with that.
    I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."

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  3. #63
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Perhaps his refusal to vote was a Pyrrhic victory, perhaps it would have been better to leave it in his car and go vote and then take it up through different channels. I for one don't see how he "assed anything up" for gun rights. As I see it, the bottom line is that the officials were enabled and allowed to enforce PERSONAL OPINION that they could NOT back with LAW and this they should never have been allowed to do. If the state wants to take measures to officially ban carry at polls that is one thing, but to deny him his right because of OPINION is wrong and this needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, it is likely that unless he is willing to spend large amounts of his own personal time and money to hire a lawyer and fight a case to the highest courts in his state, his rights will continue to get denied because someone else holds force on an ERRONEOUS OPINION of law.

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    You know what I have figured out about folks on OC'ing? The Brady Bunches mantra is "ban ban ban ban"
    Folks on this forum's mantra is "bow to authority, bow to authority"

    It is the same old thing. Put it away and talk to the officials later. I am also sick and tired of folks saying you can't expect the cops to know every statute. Aw, if they don't know they sure the heck find out before telling someone they are wrong. And, of the guys working at the voting place was a LEO. Don't know about you but just out of professionalism I would think he would KNOW what is right and worng and what is permissable. I don't care if he was off duty. Just the fact he was working there one would think he would know the law. Oh, but that is not the case. A lot of folks wanted to give free passes to the idiots that go to NYC with guns and get arrested becasue they did not know the local laws........But hardly anyone mentions the LEO's being ignorant.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...
    Folks on this forum's mantra is "bow to authority, bow to authority"

    ....
    Nah, we're just a community of different people with different backgrounds and therefore different outlooks. We're not going to always agree, which I heartily enjoy. The threads where everybody piles on the same bandwagon and never questions why, get a little dull.
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  6. #66
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    Nah, we're just a community of different people with different backgrounds and therefore different outlooks. We're not going to always agree, which I heartily enjoy. The threads where everybody piles on the same bandwagon and never questions why, get a little dull.
    I do agree with you on that LOL. But the fact is OCing is not causing any damage to gun rights. If they post a "no gun" sign during the next election it is not his fault. They obviously do not want guns. So the difference is they will post and he can't carry his gun. So there is no difference in the end result. If he complied with the election officials and LEO and put his gun in the car and voted I am positive they would have a sign posted next time anyway. So what harm does it do to at least try to exercise your write in a polite way.

    Seriously, what is an OC'er to do? Next time show up with a lawyer to refute any statute that the LEO's bring up? If he did that then folks would say he is sensationalizing the event. OC'ers can't win and they get almost zero support from folks on this forum. In many cases the OC'er is not being provocative and there is no MWAG call. They are apporached by a LEO who trys to persuade them that OCing is not a good idea. The only solution coming from this forum is "don't make waves, conceall your gun, take it up with officials late". Then the all ever popular "a LEO can't be expected to know all the laws. That is fine and dandy. BUt they have no problems giving one a ticket or arresting someone if they do not know the law or ordinance. What repercussions happen to a LEO in the same situation? Either a pat on the back or "more training". Big difference there.
    I have to admit I do get passionate about this issue because the only way to get guns accepted is to have people get use to seeing them. But then folks here always say just comply with the LEO. And quite frankly the are being self centered and don't really care about OC rights. When they say they make ALL gun owners look like tools that is code word for they are afraid it could hurt them CCing. Which I think is an unfounded fear.
    The Brady BUnch has way too much ammo to go after gun rights than to bring up folks OCing legally. In fact, I can't find too much about anti's pushing for gun control that would affect CC becasue of OC'ers. The only laws the seem to push would curtail OC'ing.
    I am going to hike to the local range today to shoot trap. I will be OCing a Taurus 44 Mag plus of course my trap gun. I just happen to have to run errrands in town.
    What is your suggestion so I don't make waves. Go home after shooting to get my EDC or do what is convenient for me and legal. To carry into town?
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  7. #67
    VIP Member Array slugger6's Avatar
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    Legal or not, IMO it was poor judgement on his part. Pick your battles.
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  8. #68
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugger6 View Post
    Legal or not, IMO it was poor judgement on his part. Pick your battles.
    I have asked this numerous of times....when and where are these battles you have to choose from? That is the stock answer for every single one of these incidents.....Pick your battles. You tell me, when would you stick up for your rights to OC? Is there a time where you don't bow to authority? Or do you suggest you bow to authority all the time and take it up the chain? By the time you take it up the chain you have already been denied your rights. That moment can't be taken back.

    I guess what I have been asking and nobody seems to want to answer is:When is it OK in your mind for someone to OC? Only in the woods when nobody is around?
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...
    What is your suggestion so I don't make waves. Go home after shooting to get my EDC or do what is convenient for me and legal. To carry into town?
    Honestly, I want you to keep making waves. As you said, this is your passion. I see nothing wrong with OC, but even if it were legal everywhere, I'd still CC (actually, I'd probably 'Virginia tuck'). But anyway, just because I'm not all purple in the face over this, doesn't mean that I'm an anti. Fight your good fight.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugger6 View Post
    Legal or not, IMO it was poor judgement on his part. Pick your battles.
    The battle over this particular right seems as often as not to pick its participants.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  11. #71
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    I am of the opinion that unless they could sufficiently establish that the action was illegal that they should have had to let him pass. We, as a society, can not let LEOs make it up as they go along, especially based upon their opinions.

    @suntzu, I am in agreement with you on this issue. Waves should have been made. What I would like to ask is, what should the guy have done?

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

  12. #72
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    To all OCers; do what you do. I would like to see a gun on everyone's hip. But you are a faction of the gun rights movement that need to get together, and get it together in a way that brings positive feedback, and start policing your ranks.

    Stop getting red faced and bent because some of your brothers may not agree with you.

    Anywhere you go, there are restrictions. You have 1st Amend rights, but even on this forum there are restrictions.
    Go create a panic by yelling " fire"! In a crowded room and see what happens.

    Give a speech that moves people to riot and see what happens.

    Get it together and find ways that promote OC.
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    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    To all OCers; do what you do. I would like to see a gun on everyone's hip. But you are a faction of the gun rights movement that need to get together, and get it together in a way that brings positive feedback, and start policing your ranks.

    Stop getting red faced and bent because some of your brothers may not agree with you.

    Anywhere you go, there are restrictions. You have 1st Amend rights, but even on this forum there are restrictions.
    Go create a panic by yelling " fire"! In a crowded room and see what happens.

    Give a speech that moves people to riot and see what happens.

    Get it together and find ways that promote OC.
    How do you promote OC when the only answer we get from folks on this forum is to obey the LEO regardless of the law? In most of these situations the CC'er is not the one looking for trouble (I am not talking about the You Tube idiots). The man in GA according to the news OC'ed for year in the same place before he was approached by a security guard who did not have a MWAG call and did not know the law. We had a forum member that was in a park minding his own business when I LEO came over to him without a MWAG call and persuaded him to conceal becasue it would basically be easier for him since all of the moms might start complaining.

    What do you want OC'ers to do? If we all go to a location to make a point then you would say we are sensationalizing the event. If we record an encounter with a LEO then we were looking for trouble.

    Your 1 A and 2 A examples are not sound. In the cases I have mentioned above it was the GOVT. that curtailed an individuals rights. This forum has rules and is not bound to respect the 1 A. And all of these examples are not about restrictions like no gun signs being posted. These folks have a legal right to carry in a legal place. Nobody is excusing someone for carrying where it is illegal. Heck, most of the folks here don't care about no gun signs and some go out of their way to circumvent the law by finding one door in a mall that is not posted.

    As far as policing our ranks, we all agree the idiots on you tube are idiots. Hard to curtail someone ya don't know. How about the government policing themselves.

    I still can not see how hardly anybody that disgrees with this mans actions is not condemming the LEO's and election offcials. It just astounds me. All they had to do was let him vote and be on his way. It would have been a non event.

    I still want to see if any of you folks that think this guy was an idiot is willing to answer a simple question:When is it OK to OC? I mean obviously we OC'ers are a bunch of blithering idiots. I would appreciate your guidance
    carracer likes this.

  14. #74
    Member Array Nightflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I do agree with you on that LOL. But the fact is OCing is not causing any damage to gun rights. If they post a "no gun" sign during the next election it is not his fault. They obviously do not want guns. So the difference is they will post and he can't carry his gun. So there is no difference in the end result. If he complied with the election officials and LEO and put his gun in the car and voted I am positive they would have a sign posted next time anyway. So what harm does it do to at least try to exercise your write in a polite way.

    Seriously, what is an OC'er to do? Next time show up with a lawyer to refute any statute that the LEO's bring up? If he did that then folks would say he is sensationalizing the event. OC'ers can't win and they get almost zero support from folks on this forum. In many cases the OC'er is not being provocative and there is no MWAG call. They are apporached by a LEO who trys to persuade them that OCing is not a good idea. The only solution coming from this forum is "don't make waves, conceall your gun, take it up with officials late". Then the all ever popular "a LEO can't be expected to know all the laws. That is fine and dandy. BUt they have no problems giving one a ticket or arresting someone if they do not know the law or ordinance. What repercussions happen to a LEO in the same situation? Either a pat on the back or "more training". Big difference there.
    I have to admit I do get passionate about this issue because the only way to get guns accepted is to have people get use to seeing them. But then folks here always say just comply with the LEO. And quite frankly the are being self centered and don't really care about OC rights. When they say they make ALL gun owners look like tools that is code word for they are afraid it could hurt them CCing. Which I think is an unfounded fear.
    The Brady BUnch has way too much ammo to go after gun rights than to bring up folks OCing legally. In fact, I can't find too much about anti's pushing for gun control that would affect CC becasue of OC'ers. The only laws the seem to push would curtail OC'ing.
    I am going to hike to the local range today to shoot trap. I will be OCing a Taurus 44 Mag plus of course my trap gun. I just happen to have to run errrands in town.
    What is your suggestion so I don't make waves. Go home after shooting to get my EDC or do what is convenient for me and legal. To carry into town?
    Well said, Hard Charger, I don't have my OC license yet, But, once I do get my license it will become a part of my life, good judgement and understanding the laws is a responsibility of all good citizens, that said, I also agree with you that the LEO should not be ignorant to the laws because at the end of day, it's his job, just like a Soldier should not be ignorant to the history of his unit. I probably would've walked back to my car just to let it go and be done with it, but what makes our rights any less important?

    So, I do understand what your saying...

  15. #75
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Still waiting from anyone who thinks the guy was wrong to explain when it is OK to OC?

    There have been no answers, because there are no good answers as to why it would not be ok this time, but ok other times. I understand that some people don't support OC, but from what I can tell it is because they are afraid of how it might affect them, not because they don't think it is right. We are afraid of the government taking our rights away. Isn't that one of the purposes of the 2A? To prevent that from happening?
    Walk softly ...

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