Question for OCers

This is a discussion on Question for OCers within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The people that blindly submit to authority will never understand those who don't....

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  1. #16
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    The people that blindly submit to authority will never understand those who don't.
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  3. #17
    Member Array jwinkeler's Avatar
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    In Virginia you don't have to show ID upon demand unless you're in one of a couple localities. That being said my only adverse interaction with law enforcement related to open carry besides some really not nice looks happened in school while I wasn't carrying, but whether I give ID for me would depend on the demeanor of the officer, if he walks up and is polite and professional yea I'll go along with it and let him do his job. But if he isn't so no nice about it I'll push back and give him a hard time + a complaint


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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    In PA, you are not required to show ID.
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  5. #19
    Member Array kmf0925's Avatar
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    While I agree that you may not NEED to show an ID when OCing I think you should if asked. If you aren't doing anything wrong whats the big deal? What I hate the most about people on those YouTube videos is their attitude. They have to understand that, while it doesn't bother any of us on this forum, OCing is not a common practice in most places yet. For most people it is "scarey" to see a random person walking down the street with a pistol strapped to their hip.. because you know.. guns kill people

    Not to mention, it is unlawful for a person convicted of a felony to be in possession of a firearm. So while I may not agree with an officer checking ID just for OCing, I can't say that it really bothers me. If I'm ever stopped for OCing I will gladly show an officer my ID and comply with whatever he asks. After all, I know I'm legal to be doing what I am doing. In Michigan, you don't need a permit to OC, just to conceal. So I'd show him my DL and CPL. It will probably get you on your way quicker to just comply with his simple request to show your ID then to be a jacka** to someone just trying to do their job.

    Like it or not, guns make a lot of people uncomfortable. It is an unfortunate reality in today's society with all the idiots that give legal gun owners a bad and "crazy" name. If the cops get a MWAG call they have to investigate. Yes, it is a right to LEGALLY own a firearm and carry it. LEOs have to make sure the people that are carrying guns are legal to do so.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    In many states you're required to provide you license when "officially" contacted by an officer of the law. Oklahoma is one such state.
    OK, I may be a little dense here but: Terry v Ohio (Terry Stop) says when LEO has Reasonable Suspicion he can stop some some, frisk and demand ID. So what you are saying is that in OK LEO can can walk up to someone and demand "Papers! You vill show your identity papers! over ridding Terry???

  7. #21
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmf0925 View Post
    While I agree that you may not NEED to show an ID when OCing I think you should if asked. If you aren't doing anything wrong whats the big deal? What I hate the most about people on those YouTube videos is their attitude. They have to understand that, while it doesn't bother any of us on this forum, OCing is not a common practice in most places yet. For most people it is "scarey" to see a random person walking down the street with a pistol strapped to their hip.. because you know.. guns kill people

    Not to mention, it is unlawful for a person convicted of a felony to be in possession of a firearm. So while I may not agree with an officer checking ID just for OCing, I can't say that it really bothers me. If I'm ever stopped for OCing I will gladly show an officer my ID and comply with whatever he asks. After all, I know I'm legal to be doing what I am doing. In Michigan, you don't need a permit to OC, just to conceal. So I'd show him my DL and CPL. It will probably get you on your way quicker to just comply with his simple request to show your ID then to be a jacka** to someone just trying to do their job.

    Like it or not, guns make a lot of people uncomfortable. It is an unfortunate reality in today's society with all the idiots that give legal gun owners a bad and "crazy" name. If the cops get a MWAG call they have to investigate. Yes, it is a right to LEGALLY own a firearm and carry it. LEOs have to make sure the people that are carrying guns are legal to do so.
    So if a couple cops knocked on the door of your house and asked to search you wouldn't have a problem 'cause after all you're not doing anything illegal and people do cook meth in their houses you know!!1 Not being facetious, just interested in where you would draw the line??

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    So if a couple cops knocked on the door of your house and asked to search you wouldn't have a problem 'cause after all you're not doing anything illegal and people do cook meth in their houses you know!!1 Not being facetious, just interested in where you would draw the line??
    Sadly many, while not all, draw the line at the point where they are personally affected. Until that happens they see no problem.

    This is meant as a general observation and not directed at anyone in particular.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmf0925 View Post
    If you aren't doing anything wrong whats the big deal?
    I only parsed this part of your post because it high lites a problem we have. What you fail to realize it has nothing to do with OC'ing. Would you allow a LEO to search your car with no probable cause if you were stopped for speeding? Would you allow a LEO to frisk you with no probable cause for jaywalking? Would you allow a LEO to come into your house for a search without probable cause because there was a report a BG was hiding in the area? If you have nothing to hide why not let them in?

    What about warrantless wire taps on your phone? GPS tracking of your vehicle? Nothing to hide right...then no problem.

    I fail to not understand why folks you purport to support the 2A specifically and the Constituition in general feel that when OC'ing you need to give up your 1st, 4th and 2nd A rights? I did not know my job was to bow to authority so folks that CC are happy with my demeanor with LEO's. I am mostly talking about interactions with LEO's that were not MAWG calls, but initiated by the LEO themselves. I feel ZERO responsibility to help them out one bit because they do not like the sight of a person with a gun. Sure, I do understand if it is a MAWG call. They are responding to a complaint and theyget paid to check it out. But the 4th A is still in effect.

    Maybe it would just be easier of folks if they made a new Constitution just for folks that OC.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Not being facetious, just interested in where you would draw the line??
    I draw the line when I am on my own private property.

    If I am walking around in public with my weapon out for all to see, I have no issue with an officer politely asking me to identify myself and verify I am not a bad guy. If I say "no" it just makes for a scene. I have nothing to hide, why not just prove it to the officer?

    Also and again, as a CC'er, I walk by all cops and people and nobody even notices me. MUCH easier.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    As the rabbit above stated state laws differ and in many you have to show ID to the officer when requested.

    When an officer is dispatched to a call he can not say "oh never mind I am not going" he has to respond and investigate the circumstances.
    That's a rabbit? I thought it was a guinea pig.

    That aside. Here in Missouri when LEO asks to see your I.D., you are by law to give it. They don't have to give a reason. I don't think that should be a big problem. Makes me wonder why in this state "people" (democrats) are grouching about having to show I.D. at the voting places.
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  12. #26
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    I draw the line when I am on my own private property.

    If I am walking around in public with my weapon out for all to see, I have no issue with an officer politely asking me to identify myself and verify I am not a bad guy. If I say "no" it just makes for a scene. I have nothing to hide, why not just prove it to the officer?

    Also and again, as a CC'er, I walk by all cops and people and nobody even notices me. MUCH easier.
    To verify that you are a bad guy he would have to run your name. Don't know about you but I have other things to do with my time than wait for a LEO to check if I am a bad guy when there was no cause to stop me to begin with (no MWAG) calls.
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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    If I am walking around in public with my weapon out for all to see, I have no issue with an officer politely asking me to identify myself and verify I am not a bad guy. If I say "no" it just makes for a scene. I have nothing to hide, why not just prove it to the officer?
    The last time I "proved" it to an officer, I got a sworn at and lectured about how stupid OC was...
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    The last time I "proved" it to an officer, I got a sworn at and lectured about how stupid OC was...
    I agree with the policeman. I won't ever go against OC laws, I support ALL of them. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with it (and neither does the police officer you encountered).

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Don't know about you but I have other things to do with my time than wait for a LEO to check if I am a bad guy when there was no cause to stop me to begin with (no MWAG) calls.
    I agree. Exactly why I conceal my weapon.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    I agree with the policeman. I won't ever go against OC laws, I support ALL of them. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with it (and neither does the police officer you encountered).



    I agree. Exactly why I conceal my weapon.
    You are free to agree with him, but he is an officer, and acting in an official duty; he is not paid for his opinions, he is paid for law enforcement. If he doesn't like OC, he is free to have that opinion, but he shouldn't be putting it forward while in his official capacity, JMO.
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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    You are free to agree with him, but he is an officer, and acting in an official duty; he is not paid for his opinions, he is paid for law enforcement. If he doesn't like OC, he is free to have that opinion, but he shouldn't be putting it forward while in his official capacity, JMO.
    I can see your point. And to some extent, I agree. However, I am able to objectively look at BOTH sides because I wasn't involved.

    Police officers are humans just like you and I are humans. We aren't perfect everyday of our lives now are we? Why should police officers be held to a different standard? Maybe he had a bad day. Also, maybe that officer has seen the tragic side of guns in the hands of idiots and morons. After some time, I bet that takes a toll on you. Why not try and see it from the other persons side once in awhile.
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