Question for OCers

This is a discussion on Question for OCers within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; that sucks. im glad i dont live there. obviously if you are carrying you would be sure to know the law and have it with ...

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 54 of 54
Like Tree57Likes

Thread: Question for OCers

  1. #46
    Member Array brazildsm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    castle rock WA
    Posts
    80
    that sucks. im glad i dont live there. obviously if you are carrying you would be sure to know the law and have it with you.that way you wouldnt have to worry about cops invading your privacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by tnlc9 View Post
    In Tennessee the law is written stating it is against the law to go armed, except with a state issued carry permit. And if while carrying, I refuse to show that permit, I will get an invitation to spend quality time in one of Tennessee's fine jails.

    sent from my sending device

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #47
    Member Array FUZZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    75
    I think I get why people would get annoyed with having to show ID when not legally responsible to, but come on. How much of an inconvenience is it to show an officer your identification? I've seen some of the 'LE confronts OC'er' videos that were mentioned. Its just ridiculous to intentionally set out to become involved in a constitutional rights argument with law enforcement just to prove a point. Its THOSE people who contribute to the bad name that gun carriers get. Like the idiots that walk around with a rifle over their shoulder just because there isn't a law against it.
    kb2wji likes this.
    -You know Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help.

    -Susie, if you want to see your doll again, leave $100 in this envelope by the tree out front. Do not call the police. You cannot trace us. You cannot find us. Sincerely, Calvin

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,245
    The LEO is not being baited. If a person is with in the law and a LEO chose to confront them.
    As for the ID you are not required to carry nor produce one and if the try to make you they are wrong not you.
    Any stop by a LEO should be recorded and most often is weather you know it or not, so a harmless stop where you did nothing wrong can come back to haunt you.
    If you cave in and comply with an improper demand of a LEO acting out side the law any action you take latter such as filing a complaint with the Police Chief or DA will end up in round file.
    You can not retract the stop once you have been ID.
    LEO seem to disagree but is is just as wrong to stop an OC acting with in the law as it is to stop a black man walking a city street because he looks out of place.
    We are viewing LEO as they use to be, Honest hard working citizen charged with up holding the law for everyone. That is not what they are to day.
    They are union members,members of a political unit with their own agenda. They carry a badge and a gun that allows them to get away with it.
    We are required to stand against such action
    LongRider likes this.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    Here it is.
    C. It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop.
    This is the relevant section. For LEO to be justified in asking for your ID or permit it MUST BE "during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop". If you are not being arrested legally detained or being stopped for a traffic violation they MAY NOT ask you for your ID. Nor are you required to produce it.

    That is not the issue here. In most states no permit is required for open carry. So it is a matter of a law abiding citizen in public conducting themselves in a lawful peaceful manner and being detained against their will than intimidated into producing their "paperwork" when in fact they are being unlawfully detained and have no legal requirement to produce their ID.

    Is it OK for the police to stop you and demand your paperwork because you are carrying a bible?
    Is it OK for the police to stop you and demand your paperwork because you are Black?
    Is it OK for the police to stop you and demand your paperwork because you are Red?
    Is it OK for the police to stop you and demand your paperwork because you are Yellow?
    Is it OK for the police to stop you and demand your paperwork because you are White or Brown?
    Is it OK for the police to stop you and demand your paperwork because you are wearing a red shirt? Or a turban?
    Of course not. So why is it OK for the police to stop you and demand your paperwork because you are open carrying a gun?

    The very idea that you are somehow making yourself look guilty because you do not want to comply with an unlawful, unconstitutional demand says volumes about how far down the road we have gone towards becoming a police state. It is absolutely horrifying to see how effective the kool aid and brainwashing has become. That so many see anyone who wishes the have their privacy and dignity respected as some kind of trouble maker or criminal
    tcox4freedom likes this.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,006
    There was a long discussion thread in July about MWAG calls asking why such calls so frequently ended up being "OC'er vs Police." It was a discussion started by an active LEO, asking whether a better way could be found.

    To my way of thinking, if the people in a state do not want mere carrying and unsubstantiated bare-fear based calls to be considered justification for stopping anyone, then it needs to be made part of the statutes, in plain unambiguous language. Such as: "Mere carrying of a firearm shall not constitute sufficient cause for stopping or detaining a person unless there is substantial corroborating evidence to show probable cause for criminal behavior occurring."

    Lacking such statutory lingo, however, MWAG calls via bare-fear callers will continue ... and police will continue to be pressured and directed to make such stops.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #51
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,880
    Federal courts have already determined that people do not have to carry identification on them at all times. One must carry and produce a license or permit when conducting an activity that state/federal law requires such: Driving a motor vehicle requires a license, carrying a firearm either openly or concealed (in some states) etc. Should an LEO request you identify yourself, mere verbal identification is sufficient. Some form of ID may be requires for such ficntions such as buying tobacco or alcohol or voting.

    What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity.

    The above case does not require one to produce ID, only to verbally identify ones self. The are many other examples of case law stating carrying of ID is not required.

    A LEO is within his rights to detain someone until his investigation is completed. So the question is: How long does one wish to be detained merely to make a point?
    tcox4freedom likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    There was a long discussion thread in July about MWAG calls asking why such calls so frequently ended up being "OC'er vs Police." It was a discussion started by an active LEO, asking whether a better way could be found.

    To my way of thinking, if the people in a state do not want mere carrying and unsubstantiated bare-fear based calls to be considered justification for stopping anyone, then it needs to be made part of the statutes, in plain unambiguous language. Such as: "Mere carrying of a firearm shall not constitute sufficient cause for stopping or detaining a person unless there is substantial corroborating evidence to show probable cause for criminal behavior occurring."

    Lacking such statutory lingo, however, MWAG calls via bare-fear callers will continue ... and police will continue to be pressured and directed to make such stops.
    The courts have repeatedly used that language and in some jurisdictions dispatchers are directed to ask what the MWAG is doing. If he is doing nothing illegal they are directed to explain that there is nothing illegal about OCing. As we have often seen, problems arise when a local PD decides that they will not tolerate OC and vow to harass those that do. As in the one case where the Chief of Police promised to have anyone OCing face down in the dirt. Court rulings and the Constitution be damned

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    A LEO is within his rights to detain someone until his investigation is completed. So the question is: How long does one wish to be detained merely to make a point?
    No they do not have blanket authority to detain anyone they want. They have specific guidelines by which they must adhere to detain anyone. Basically a traffic stop, a criminal arrest and active investigation of a crime. OCing is not a crime therefore OC'ing in and of itself does not warrant a stop or detention of any kind.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  9. #53
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,880
    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    No they do not have blanket authority to detain anyone they want. They have specific guidelines by which they must adhere to detain anyone. Basically a traffic stop, a criminal arrest and active investigation of a crime. OCing is not a crime therefore OC'ing in and of itself does not warrant a stop or detention of any kind.
    If an officer stops you and ask legitanate questions in course of an investigation of a "possible" crime, you go ahead and tell him to piss off and then take off--as you must feel is your 'right'--and let us know how that works out for you. I bet it takes longer than merely answering his question.
    FUZZ likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    If an officer stops you and ask legitanate questions in course of an investigation of a "possible" crime, you go ahead and tell him to piss off and then take off--as you must feel is your 'right'--and let us know how that works out for you. I bet it takes longer than merely answering his question.
    Didn't I say that you can be detained as part of an active criminal investigation? If you did not get that please reread my post. But if he is detaining you for simply walking down the street lawfully going about your business he has no authority to do so. Pretty simple really to ask if you are being detained and if so why. If he has a legitimate reason for detaining you than of course co operate. If not you are free to leave without responding to his questions. If he opts to continue to detain you or escalate and arrest you than he is the criminal violating of the law.

    I suppose what I do not understand is why so many seem to believe that it is OK for a police officer to violate the law. To me a police officer who violates the law is no different than any other criminal. In fact he is worse than your run of the mill rapist murderer or robber if he is using his authority as a police officer to commit the crime.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

is it legal to open carry on a bicycle without your cwl
,

ocers

,
ocers police carry
,

oklahoma open carry law specifics

,
oklahoma open carry specifics
,
open carry in car in va
,
open carry oklahoma specifics
,
open carry walks ohio
,
specifics on oklahoma open carry law
,
title 21 section 1290.8 in violation of 4 th amendment
,
virginia open carry law police cannot ask you to produce id
,
washington state police traffic stop with concealed weapon
Click on a term to search for related topics.