Question for OCers

This is a discussion on Question for OCers within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've seen a few you-tube vids of guys getting confronted by police when OC-ing. The guys always tell the cops that they don't need to ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array CARRY365's Avatar
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    Question for OCers

    I've seen a few you-tube vids of guys getting confronted by police when OC-ing. The guys always tell the cops that they don't need to show thier IDs because they are not breaking any laws. I agree! Then the cop says "we got a call of a man with a gun and we have to check it out so please show the ID."

    My question is, why doesn't the OCer just ask the cop "Why don't you go tell the caller that there's nothing wrong with what I'm doing? Cops are supposed to enforce the law and I'm pretty sure they should inform the public if they falsely accuse of something that is leagal. Have a nice day!"

    If the cop still delays you then I'd get all the cops info, supervisors info, and set-up an appointment with the chief. Then I'd comply with anything they asked and really download on the chief.

    Edit...More specifics
    I was talking about the guys in the vids where they are all leagal in open carrying in whatever state they are in. If your not breaking the law you don't need to be harrased. Should you get pulled over and checked when driving the speed limit because your car can go faster? Should you be checked out if you have a lighter because you could start a fire?

    My point is a leo should ask the caller what the person with the gun is doing and inform them right then that open carrying is legal. A guy walking his dog or carrying a sign or a video camera isn't causing anyone any harm. People are afraid of the guns. They need to be educated that they are only dangerous in a bg's hands. Most people are only educated by the news media and hollywood. If a leo doesn't know the laws he is paid to enforce, he needs to learn them. I had a run in with a deputy that came knocking on my door at 10:30pm one night but thats another story but the guy really had me po-ed because his lack of knowledge of the laws. He ad 3 major and a bunch of minor issues that he was way wrong on. He left tail tucked and NEVER wrote up a report! He was answering a "call" and no report! HMMmmm

    I'm all for being complient with police unless they are 100% in the wrong. If they are not telling these "callers" they are responding to that nothing is illeagal, they they are 100% in the wrong. "Don't tread on me" or my leagal rights. If someone is offended by the sight of my legally possesed gun, they have the problem. Leos not informing these offended people are not doing any justice for gun owners rights and siding with the anti-gunners.
    Last edited by CARRY365; May 16th, 2012 at 06:51 PM.
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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    In many states you're required to provide you license when "officially" contacted by an officer of the law. Oklahoma is one such state.
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    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    The videos are generally made when people are trying to make a point and bait the officers into doing something illegal caught on camera. I don't really think that those cases really help the cause, it just makes for pissed of police.

    Depending on your sate laws, you may or may not be required to show ID, and if not, then I agree, you should not have to. I think most of the problems come when the OCer gives an attitude. As far as what you are suggesting, I would agree that attempting to educate the public and LEOs is a good idea, as is cooperating with an officer you are interacting with. Make it clear that you don't appreciate what is happening and that you will be taking it up the chain of command.

    I think the key is attitude, attitude, attitude. Be respectfull. It sounds like you are trying to make a statement with the interaction you described, so make it a good statement as an ambassador of the firearm community, not a joke of a news story that makes the uninformed think we are all gun nuts.
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    As the rabbit above stated state laws differ and in many you have to show ID to the officer when requested.

    When an officer is dispatched to a call he can not say "oh never mind I am not going" he has to respond and investigate the circumstances.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    I have been stopped twice on MWAG calls. Both times hiking down a rural road. Same whacka Doodle called the cops twice. A transplant from Mass, go figure....Anyway, both times the LEO's were courteous. Just asked what I was doing (besides walking my dog LOL). I understood they had a call and they were assesing me and that is cool. That is what my insanely high porperty taxes go to. Neither time did they ask for an ID and I don't carry an ID when I OC because it is only when I hike, walk the dog, or snowshoe, or go to the county range which I hike or bike. If I go to the store along the way I always have a few bucks with me so no need for a wallet.

    ANyway, the interaction with the LEO's was how it should go, they did their job, and I responded politely in kind. Maybe those idiots (oops, LEO's and election officials) in Indiana should take lessons so they don't have folks asking for an investigation. It really is not that hard for a LEO to respect a civilian and a civilian to respect a LEO's job.

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    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    In many states you're required to provide you license when "officially" contacted by an officer of the law. Oklahoma is one such state.
    Is it a requirement to carry some form of Gov't ID if you are going to be open carrying there?
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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    While on a business trip, I was sitting by the hotel pool one evening, and an officer walked up and asked (through the fence) for my ID.

    It never crossed my mind to make a big deal out of it. While handing it to him, he explained that someone had just robbed a nearby store and that I fit the description. A smile, nod and a "stay safe" later, I was laying back by the pool.

    I was breaking no more laws than a legal OCer, only it never crossed my mind to make scene, because I didn't have a chip on my shoulder.
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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI View Post
    Is it a requirement to carry some form of Gov't ID if you are going to be open carrying there?
    Once open carry becomes legal in November, yes. Also for concealed carry. One is required to carry the CWL and a DL or other form of ID. I only recently realized that you have to carry the DL as well. Always have it anyway, but there it is. If you are not carrying those items, you are not legal and can be punished by a fine of $100-$250 and/or up to 30 days in jail. Before you ask, no I don't like it.

    We are required to inform and furnish the CWL upon official contact with a police officer. Traffic stops, accidents, MWAG call, anytime an officer is talking to you as part of their duty. If you sit down next to a cop at the donut shop and chat him up you don't really have to. Unless donut shops are considered part of an officer's duty, but I won't touch that one....
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    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    Once open carry becomes legal in November, yes. Also for concealed carry. One is required to carry the CWL and a DL or other form of ID. I only recently realized that you have to carry the DL as well. Always have it anyway, but there it is. If you are not carrying those items, you are not legal and can be punished by a fine of $100-$250 and/or up to 30 days in jail. Before you ask, no I don't like it.

    We are required to inform and furnish the CWL upon official contact with a police officer. Traffic stops, accidents, MWAG call, anytime an officer is talking to you as part of their duty. If you sit down next to a cop at the donut shop and chat him up you don't really have to. Unless donut shops are considered part of an officer's duty, but I won't touch that one....
    I only asked because if one is just OC'ing here in Ohio, they can't require you to provide any form of ID unless you are breaking the law. I'm almost certain that you are not even required to give your name and address verbally also. While carrying concealed we are required to notify during traffic stops and such, but there are a lot of groups trying to get rid of our requirement to notify during traffic stops, because it has been abused in a few instances.
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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    This is going to vary with each state. Some states (like Indiana and soon to be Oklahoma) are licensed carry states. You must have a carry permit, by whatever name they use. If your carrying, open or concealed without the permit your in violation of the law. How is the LEO going to know if you have the permit, if you refuse to show it? States like Virginia are OC, no permit required. You can legally refuse to show a permit, but what is the purpose, unless your looking for a confrontation? I have no problem showing ID/Permit if asked.
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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    New language specific to OC once that takes effect in OK: "The person shall display the handgun license on demand of a law enforcement officer; provided, however, that in the absence of reasonable and articulable suspicion of other criminal activity, an individual carrying an unconcealed handgun shall not be disarmed or physically restrained unless the individual fails to display a valid handgun license in response to that demand."
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Just show them your ID and go on your way. If you OC, you have to expect to get hassled sooner or later. Pick your battles. A renegade OC'er won't magically make OC legal across the country. Like it or not, it is the world we live in.
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    It has always baffled me why a LEO would want to see an ID when a person is not breaking a law. If I am exercising a constitutional right, does it really matter what my name is? "Show me your papers" is something I expect to see in a movie about NAZI Germany or Communist Russia. And if my saying no gives the officer an attitude, then why would his demanding it not give me an attitude? There is a difference between being polite and respectful and kissing butt.

    We had 100,000 protesters in our Capital last winter. Does anyone think the police went around asking them for ID just because they were exercising their 1st Amendment right?
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    When I drive my car I don't expect to get pulled over unless I'm doing something wrong, why is open carry any different?

    Sorry, but unless I'm doing something wrong, I do not expect to get hassled.

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    In Tennessee the law is written stating it is against the law to go armed, except with a state issued carry permit. And if while carrying, I refuse to show that permit, I will get an invitation to spend quality time in one of Tennessee's fine jails.

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